1
00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,530
Herald: As you all know, this year we didn't have

2
00:00:11,530 --> 00:00:15,750
any summer dream, but more of a summer nightmare and for the first time

3
00:00:15,750 --> 00:00:19,719
in 50 years of the federal republic of Gemany
journalists were impeached

4
00:00:19,719 --> 00:00:24,060
for "Landesverrat" (Treason of the nation).
It lies back now a few months

5
00:00:24,060 --> 00:00:27,349
and we want to use this opportunity now,
to reflect a bit about

6
00:00:27,349 --> 00:00:31,739
what actually happened, once recall the events

7
00:00:31,739 --> 00:00:35,980
and shine light on the back story, but also look at

8
00:00:35,980 --> 00:00:38,930
what happened since then, what the consequences are.

9
00:00:38,930 --> 00:00:44,300
And to do that, please give with me a warm welcome 
to the founder

10
00:00:44,300 --> 00:00:48,730
and publisher of "Netzpolitik" and our favourite
"Landesverräter" (Nation traitor) Markus Beckedahl.

11
00:00:48,730 --> 00:00:55,730
*applaus*

12
00:01:01,870 --> 00:01:05,250
Herald: And...

13
00:01:05,250 --> 00:01:09,190
For all our international guests, if you want to listen to the talk in English

14
00:01:09,190 --> 00:01:12,170
that is totally possible. Please tone into our wonderful

15
00:01:12,170 --> 00:01:16,109
translation at 80 11. Thank you!

16
00:01:16,689 --> 00:01:19,710
Markus: Hello, good morning!

17
00:01:19,710 --> 00:01:26,710
*laughing**applause*

18
00:01:27,890 --> 00:01:32,359
But when you're clapping all the time, I will never finish with my 72 slides.

19
00:01:32,359 --> 00:01:39,360
So... 
*applause*

20
00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,909
Andre can be here unfortunately, he has to lie in the sun,

21
00:01:43,909 --> 00:01:45,780
I mean in the real sun.

22
00:01:45,780 --> 00:01:48,780
*applause*

23
00:01:48,780 --> 00:01:55,139
On the camp, just after the case against us was dropped we have

24
00:01:55,139 --> 00:02:00,719
held a talk, so: The story about all of this investigations

25
00:02:00,719 --> 00:02:04,319
I will hold very briefly. I will more focus on 
what the findings are,

26
00:02:04,319 --> 00:02:08,408
what we have learned, what would have to change in the laws to avoid

27
00:02:08,408 --> 00:02:12,349
such investigations in the future.
Who is still interested in the background story,

28
00:02:12,349 --> 00:02:16,109
as I said, the talks from the camp are online.

29
00:02:16,109 --> 00:02:18,870
Yes, I believe you can download them free of charge.

30
00:02:18,870 --> 00:02:21,560
The story started over a year earlier.

31
00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,490
Last year we celebrated the 10th anniversary

32
00:02:24,490 --> 00:02:29,210
and adequately for our 10th anniversary, we received 
news, that the chancellery

33
00:02:29,210 --> 00:02:32,959
had threatened the members of the NSA-investigation commission in the Bundestag

34
00:02:32,959 --> 00:02:39,220
to press penal charges, because among others
in our blog documents had been posted

35
00:02:39,220 --> 00:02:46,859
which were distributed in the context of the
investigation commission.

36
00:02:46,859 --> 00:02:51,670
At that time the charges were not pursued.
There are rumours,

37
00:02:51,670 --> 00:02:54,469
that Merkel was against it. She was afraid,

38
00:02:54,469 --> 00:02:57,909
that that somehow was bad PR 
to prosecute the press.

39
00:02:57,909 --> 00:03:01,340
We felt honoured and a bit motivated

40
00:03:01,340 --> 00:03:05,049
to just continue.

41
00:03:05,049 --> 00:03:09,859
In this February we published parts of the
state budge documents,

42
00:03:09,859 --> 00:03:13,409
which showed, that the "Verfassungsschutz"
(German secret service) was planning

43
00:03:13,409 --> 00:03:18,930
massive analysis of internet contents just like that.

44
00:03:18,930 --> 00:03:24,219
That was interesting, because two year after the start of the Snowden-Leaks

45
00:03:24,219 --> 00:03:29,069
the answer of the government was to increase 
the budget

46
00:03:29,069 --> 00:03:32,199
and the authority of the secret services 
to monitor the internet.

47
00:03:32,199 --> 00:03:35,880
We thought, that should better be discussed,
before that is just implemented that way.

48
00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:40,799
But a discussion was actually just possible,
if all the document were public,

49
00:03:40,799 --> 00:03:44,380
which were confidential to that point.

50
00:03:44,380 --> 00:03:46,680
To us, someone had leaked them. We had a bit space 
on our servers,

51
00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,690
so we published them, sadly we did not get the
huge debate in civil society,

52
00:03:50,690 --> 00:03:53,330
we wanted. To put it in other word: 
It just did not

53
00:03:53,330 --> 00:03:56,979
interest people that much.
But it is our philosophy

54
00:03:56,979 --> 00:04:01,540
documents we have not just to quote,
but also

55
00:04:01,540 --> 00:04:06,449
if possible, openly provided for all our readers.

56
00:04:06,449 --> 00:04:10,079
We are used to the Internet, we are used
to link to the sources.

57
00:04:10,079 --> 00:04:14,179
*applaus*

58
00:04:14,179 --> 00:04:19,350
and we are used, that others should also question our work.

59
00:04:19,350 --> 00:04:24,619
We do not believe, that we are
the experts for everything,

60
00:04:24,619 --> 00:04:27,700
and we believe also, that among our readers are many experts,

61
00:04:27,700 --> 00:04:31,699
who can help us, to gain more perspectives
on documents from all angles

62
00:04:31,699 --> 00:04:34,210
and for that we all need the originals.

63
00:04:34,210 --> 00:04:39,880
And therefore we upload them to the net,
of course on a case by case basis,

64
00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,370
if we do not endanger anyone by that.

65
00:04:43,370 --> 00:04:45,850
But, back to the start of this year:

66
00:04:45,850 --> 00:04:48,100
In this April we received another state budget plan,

67
00:04:48,100 --> 00:04:49,470
which we of course published too.

68
00:04:49,470 --> 00:04:52,160
Unfortunately this one did really interest none,

69
00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:57,650
'cause 9:05 am it was online, 
9:15 the minister of justice informed,

70
00:04:57,650 --> 00:05:00,560
that he was going to reimplement the
"Vorratsdatenspeicherung" (Mass surveillance measures) now,

71
00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,299
so our issue just die on that spot.
We found it was a pity,

72
00:05:04,299 --> 00:05:08,220
'cause we really wanted to talk about: 
What is the Verfassungsschutz doing there?

73
00:05:08,220 --> 00:05:10,500
Is this constitutional at all, what they are doing?

74
00:05:10,500 --> 00:05:14,089
Shouldn't we as society not decide first,

75
00:05:14,089 --> 00:05:15,699
if we approve the measures or not?

76
00:05:15,699 --> 00:05:18,789
And, shouldn't maybe the supreme court
rule first about it,

77
00:05:18,789 --> 00:05:21,780
if they are even allowed to do so or not?

78
00:05:21,780 --> 00:05:24,330
To put this all in context, what we published there:

79
00:05:24,330 --> 00:05:28,240
state budget, some say, that is somehow 
comparable with

80
00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,430
simply just a cost draft.

81
00:05:31,430 --> 00:05:35,440
After the "Landesverrat" investigation
ZEIT ONLINE (news) has published another

82
00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:40,500
piece of the puzzle, namely internal
documents of the "Verfassungsschutz"

83
00:05:40,500 --> 00:05:46,000
about XKeyscore. We have published, so to say, the budget planes,

84
00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:50,549
which documented the implementation of this XKeyscore Software,

85
00:05:50,549 --> 00:05:55,409
and another piece of the puzzle came from 
Kai Biermann and Yassin Musharbash,

86
00:05:55,409 --> 00:06:00,169
I think I'm constantly pronouncing their names wrong. Sorry.

87
00:06:00,169 --> 00:06:08,910
On the 4th of July we hard from a radio station, 
that a internet service

88
00:06:08,910 --> 00:06:14,349
had published two articles in February and April,

89
00:06:14,349 --> 00:06:19,139
for what they were indicted by the president
of the Verfassungsschutz.

90
00:06:19,139 --> 00:06:24,070
It's no fun fact that, one day in advance
the Verfassungsschutz law

91
00:06:24,070 --> 00:06:27,270
with more competences for the Verfassungsschutz
had passed the parliament.

92
00:06:27,270 --> 00:06:29,740
Possibly there is a correlation, that this
story by

93
00:06:29,740 --> 00:06:34,090
such a Verfassungsschutz friendly "Deutschlandfunk"
journalist

94
00:06:34,090 --> 00:06:36,750
was placed one day after and not before.

95
00:06:36,750 --> 00:06:40,510
Probably the "Landesverrat" investigations, media coverage

96
00:06:40,510 --> 00:06:44,880
could have led to more people actually
having a look at the Verfassungsschutz law,

97
00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:46,729
but it did not happen this way.

98
00:06:46,729 --> 00:06:49,120
We were at first a bit surprised, 
so we noticed first,

99
00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,040
that WE are this internet service apparently,
then we thought:

100
00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,400
Does this happen often, 
that such a accusation is filed?

101
00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,539
We then called the union for journalists and so on,

102
00:06:59,539 --> 00:07:02,370
to ask about it. We thought they might know
more about this stuff. But they were like:

103
00:07:02,370 --> 00:07:05,740
"Well, no idea, happened last time in the 90s or something?"

104
00:07:05,740 --> 00:07:08,989
So we thought... hmmm... strange somehow.
So we called on Monday

105
00:07:08,989 --> 00:07:12,420
the Verfassungsschutz and the General Attorney,

106
00:07:12,420 --> 00:07:14,950
to ask about it. They did not want to tell us
anything obviously,

107
00:07:14,950 --> 00:07:20,769
and then we blogged about it and waited for it.
We knew according to

108
00:07:20,769 --> 00:07:24,489
this article in the Deutschlandfunk it had 
to do with betraying official secrets.

109
00:07:24,489 --> 00:07:28,819
There is a ruling of the supreme court,
to phrase it that way, is would be bad

110
00:07:28,819 --> 00:07:33,560
for our sources, but we as individuals 
could still get out of this.

111
00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:41,400
And then on the 30th of July, we received a 
letter, that at least throw over our

112
00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,190
daily life in the editorial office a bit.

113
00:07:44,190 --> 00:07:48,639
The general attorney notified us, that
investigations concerning "Landesverrat"

114
00:07:48,639 --> 00:07:53,580
against Andre, against our source and me
were being conduced and

115
00:07:53,580 --> 00:07:56,259
it already started in May.

116
00:07:56,259 --> 00:07:57,590
So we thought: Well.

117
00:07:57,590 --> 00:08:04,589
*Laughing**applause*

118
00:08:07,149 --> 00:08:08,850
So we then blogged it.

119
00:08:08,850 --> 00:08:11,179
Then we looked up, what does "Landesverrat" actually mean anyway?

120
00:08:11,179 --> 00:08:15,659
*Laughing*

121
00:08:15,659 --> 00:08:18,829
Our lawyers said like: 
"So, there is something curious going on!

122
00:08:18,829 --> 00:08:23,639
The law about it states: There must be the 
intention of harming the federal republic."

123
00:08:23,639 --> 00:08:27,799
and we actually wanted a better federal
republic,

124
00:08:27,799 --> 00:08:31,019
I mean, we wanted a federal republic, 
where the basic right we have

125
00:08:31,019 --> 00:08:36,659
were applied! That's the opposite of, what 
Landesverrat (Treason against the nation) is!

126
00:08:36,659 --> 00:08:39,240
*heavy applause*

127
00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:44,250
And he thought: "Well, if the law is the way
it is. We will fight through this in the worst case."

128
00:08:44,250 --> 00:08:47,229
Then we informed ourselfs again:
How did "Landesverrat" actually come about?

129
00:08:47,229 --> 00:08:49,290
I mean, one only knew the kind of thing
from the Spiegel scandal,

130
00:08:49,290 --> 00:08:52,870
so from history books, it went even further.
Erich Kästner and so on,

131
00:08:52,870 --> 00:08:58,570
so a very explosive... well, symbolic
phrase!

132
00:08:58,570 --> 00:09:02,930
The short version was: Thursday we received 
the letter, uploaded it and so on.

133
00:09:02,930 --> 00:09:05,760
Sunday all of the sudden we were in the 
centre of a small state crisis.

134
00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,400
Tuesday the General Attorney resigns.

135
00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,690
The Monday after, everything was buried
very quickly.

136
00:09:11,690 --> 00:09:16,260
But: Now starts, what all did happened or

137
00:09:16,260 --> 00:09:18,370
how we evaluated the whole thing.

138
00:09:18,370 --> 00:09:22,010
To start with we had a lot of luck.

139
00:09:22,010 --> 00:09:25,500
So we were lucky, that they charged us for
"Landesverrat",

140
00:09:25,500 --> 00:09:31,170
so such a symbolic, which instantly 
generates this connection to

141
00:09:31,170 --> 00:09:36,760
Franz Josef Strauß and the Spiegel Scandal
in the heads of many people.

142
00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:41,160
It hadn't been quite as practical, if they 
didn't charge us with §94 StGB "Landesverrat"

143
00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:45,420
but with §95 "Offenbarung von Staatsgeheimnissen"
(revealing of official secrets),

144
00:09:45,420 --> 00:09:48,440
so let alone the Hashtag
#offenbarungvonstaatsgeheimnissen would've

145
00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,549
been to long.
*laughing*

146
00:09:51,549 --> 00:09:57,090
We were even lucky, that the INFORMED us 
via mail.

147
00:09:57,090 --> 00:10:01,220
As far as we can reconstruct it, it looks 
a lot like,

148
00:10:01,220 --> 00:10:05,420
that the General Attorney ordered an 
external report by a professor close to the BND,

149
00:10:05,420 --> 00:10:09,510
who should affirm the view of the 
Verfassungsschutz,

150
00:10:09,510 --> 00:10:12,620
that we published official secrets,

151
00:10:12,620 --> 00:10:15,479
and if it had turned out that way..., 
and this BND-professor told the

152
00:10:15,479 --> 00:10:18,480
General Attorney, that he unfortunately
hadn't finished yet and

153
00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:20,969
had to go on vacation.
But if he had finished,

154
00:10:20,969 --> 00:10:23,980
he would probably come to that conclusion
and then through that

155
00:10:23,980 --> 00:10:26,080
we only would have known from a police
raid,

156
00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,670
that there is something going on in this
direction.

157
00:10:28,670 --> 00:10:33,720
Therefore we took the message from that
just to be prepare for that.

158
00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:38,160
We didn't think then, that we would in
Germany, in a constitutional democracy,

159
00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:42,800
have to be afraid of raid at home and
the office

160
00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,510
due to our work.

161
00:10:46,510 --> 00:10:48,809
Now we know that, now we are prepared,

162
00:10:48,809 --> 00:10:50,640
if it someday comes to that.

163
00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:55,450
Then we were lucky: 
David vs Goliath, I mean,

164
00:10:55,450 --> 00:10:59,510
Star Wars was just released. Mr. Maaßen
(president of the Verfassungsschutz) would

165
00:10:59,510 --> 00:11:00,890
be the perfect Emperor.
*laughing*

166
00:11:00,890 --> 00:11:03,260
We are the rebels, so besides David-
Goliath

167
00:11:03,260 --> 00:11:05,660
Star Wars is also quite fitting.

168
00:11:05,660 --> 00:11:09,089
In any case, this huge symbolic, 
We were just lucky.

169
00:11:09,089 --> 00:11:12,049
We had such a stress test before, 6 years ago.

170
00:11:12,049 --> 00:11:16,350
That time we published internal documents
of the "Deutsche Bahn" (German railway).

171
00:11:16,350 --> 00:11:19,799
We could test a bit the mechanics of the 
new public

172
00:11:19,799 --> 00:11:25,090
in such a David-Goliath situation,
Streisand-effect and so on,

173
00:11:25,090 --> 00:11:29,519
and now we could play the same thing in
big.

174
00:11:29,519 --> 00:11:33,089
And most importantly the luck we had was,

175
00:11:33,089 --> 00:11:35,190
that this was happening in the "Sommerloch",

176
00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:38,480
So, two weeks before we would have been 
forgotten about due to the Greek crisis,

177
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,809
two weeks due later the refugees situation,
but exactly at that time

178
00:11:41,809 --> 00:11:45,679
when we received this letter, 
just nothing else happened at all.

179
00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,919
Totally great, Thanks!

180
00:11:48,919 --> 00:11:53,949
*laughing**applause*

181
00:11:53,949 --> 00:11:57,790
So but first off we had to prove that
we are good citizens,

182
00:11:57,790 --> 00:12:00,999
at the same time, which was the funniest 
thing,

183
00:12:00,999 --> 00:12:07,029
the government or the "Deutsche Bank" as
standard initiative of the BDI

184
00:12:07,029 --> 00:12:10,039
together with the President send us also 
such a certificate,

185
00:12:10,039 --> 00:12:12,920
'cause we were honoured within the "Deutschland-
Land der Ideen"(Germany land of ideas) campaign.

186
00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,330
We didn't know at that point what to do 
with this honouring,

187
00:12:16,330 --> 00:12:17,540
should we even make it public?

188
00:12:17,540 --> 00:12:20,910
Then we thought: How useful, that shows
this weird picture

189
00:12:20,910 --> 00:12:24,560
and shows instantly somehow how
schizophrenic this is:

190
00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:28,519
Parts of the government pay us tribute,
while the other part, well does the same,

191
00:12:28,519 --> 00:12:30,100
but doesn't intended it that way.

192
00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:32,840
*laughing*

193
00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:39,650
Well, in any case something happens, that
we could have known,

194
00:12:39,650 --> 00:12:44,489
but we didn't: The Admin was on vacation
and the blog was gone.

195
00:12:44,489 --> 00:12:47,520
We then needed a mirror page, where 
at least the information

196
00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:50,350
could still be found.

197
00:12:50,350 --> 00:12:52,779
Then something happen, which I never
experienced before:

198
00:12:52,779 --> 00:12:56,339
I couldn't use Twitter any more, 
for example, 'cause there were to many

199
00:12:56,339 --> 00:12:59,660
informations with our Hashtag and so on,

200
00:12:59,660 --> 00:13:01,889
my Browser shut down all the time,
I had to shut down for

201
00:13:01,889 --> 00:13:05,589
a few hours, but there was a huge crowd
declaring solidarity,

202
00:13:05,589 --> 00:13:11,370
incountable Supertweets, eg. here from 
@NeinQuarterly and also many other things,

203
00:13:11,370 --> 00:13:16,230
Links to our donation site, because we 
had obviously problems, if we had to fight

204
00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:19,199
this, then we would have needed a lot of 
money,

205
00:13:19,199 --> 00:13:24,790
for the lawyers alone and we were complete 
underfunded at that time.

206
00:13:24,790 --> 00:13:28,780
In any case, then we had this funny 
situation, that

207
00:13:28,780 --> 00:13:31,910
all of the sudden even our IBAN-number
became a trending topic.

208
00:13:31,910 --> 00:13:35,460
Our bank was proud to. 
*laughing*

209
00:13:35,460 --> 00:13:40,170
And at the same time to illustrate the
summer void of news, that was one of

210
00:13:40,170 --> 00:13:43,520
several days "tagesschau.de", where you got 
the impression that there was nothing else;

211
00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:45,920
Probably nothing else was happening at 
that time, I haven't hear of anything,

212
00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:50,349
but here you also don't see anything.

213
00:13:50,349 --> 00:13:54,509
Something else: Very nice was also the 
solidarity of the ZDF heute-jornal.

214
00:13:54,509 --> 00:13:59,560
They had written netzpolitik.org instead of
heute.de

215
00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:06,559
*laughing**big applause*

216
00:14:07,319 --> 00:14:12,229
Well, and the server was down again.
*laughing*

217
00:14:12,229 --> 00:14:14,630
Now we have a new one.
*laughing*

218
00:14:14,630 --> 00:14:18,730
So, in case that happens again, we could
use a bit more capacity.

219
00:14:18,730 --> 00:14:20,670
Well, so we had to present ourselfs also
somehow

220
00:14:20,670 --> 00:14:27,240
as even better citizens. 
*laughing**applause*

221
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:33,900
And then it was okay, I mean the most of 
the press had our back.

222
00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:41,810
We had hoped so, but we did not expect
this huge solidarity at all.

223
00:14:41,810 --> 00:14:44,639
That was really great for sure, to know 
they have your back

224
00:14:44,639 --> 00:14:47,880
and more than anything it's great, when 
all the things

225
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,260
you normally watch yourself are reporting 
about you,

226
00:14:50,260 --> 00:14:54,269
such as extra3, heute-show and so on.
(comedy news shows) The only sad thing was,

227
00:14:54,269 --> 00:14:57,509
that we were so deep in the middle of
summer, that they did not had any TV-episodes,

228
00:14:57,509 --> 00:14:59,659
but they had to do it online.

229
00:14:59,659 --> 00:15:04,360
Well, and then there was a little uprising 
of the CDU-members of parliament, who did

230
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:06,740
not understand why so many people showed
their solidarity to us.

231
00:15:06,740 --> 00:15:10,869
Jens Koeppen on the upper left is by the 
way the the head of the commission for

232
00:15:10,869 --> 00:15:13,630
digital agenda in the Bundestag. (Parliament)

233
00:15:13,630 --> 00:15:17,579
That also took just one day. The important 
people in the CDU,

234
00:15:17,579 --> 00:15:20,900
had their colleges under control again 
right the next day,

235
00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:24,399
and were like: "That's a game we can't win!"

236
00:15:24,399 --> 00:15:29,489
It was also very funny, Mr. Bosbach
declared immediately 1,5 days later:

237
00:15:29,489 --> 00:15:31,990
"However inexplicable the initiation of 
the investigation

238
00:15:31,990 --> 00:15:35,770
against the blog "netzpolitik.org" was for 
actual, legal reasons..."

239
00:15:35,770 --> 00:15:38,840
Then he was of course attacking the social 
democrates.

240
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:43,750
But this was at least for us the signal: 
Okay, the government is on the retreat.

241
00:15:43,750 --> 00:15:47,220
Not everyone did get the hint:

242
00:15:47,220 --> 00:15:51,150
Hans-Peter Uhl thought still, that now
ISIS could draw from

243
00:15:51,150 --> 00:15:56,939
budget plans conclusions how the 
Verfassungsschutz was organised.

244
00:15:56,939 --> 00:16:01,509
Well, Hans-Peter Uhl has also some other 
problems, I think.

245
00:16:01,509 --> 00:16:04,950
*laughing*

246
00:16:04,950 --> 00:16:10,240
In any case, this came in quite handy for
us. It was summer. We were a few from

247
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,000
our team and a few friends, who wanted 
absolutely to rally.

248
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,380
We thought first, well, okay a rally there 
will be coming the few well known people.

249
00:16:15,380 --> 00:16:18,910
Anyway we did a demonstration. 
2500 people were there!

250
00:16:18,910 --> 00:16:21,149
*laughing*
Also very helpful to

251
00:16:21,149 --> 00:16:25,100
to create the right images.

252
00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:28,269
But we actually thought: after two days
it is all over. Heiko Maas the minister

253
00:16:28,269 --> 00:16:30,850
of justice had to cut his vacation short
for the first time,

254
00:16:30,850 --> 00:16:33,670
went to the press, like: "Everything 
under control, keep calm

255
00:16:33,670 --> 00:16:36,729
and carry on!"
Some interview request were rejected.

256
00:16:36,729 --> 00:16:42,340
We partied and, well, on the next day we 
were actually in a state scandal,

257
00:16:42,340 --> 00:16:45,530
which took almost international proportions.

258
00:16:45,530 --> 00:16:48,899
To understand it must be said, that 
Germany was always

259
00:16:48,899 --> 00:16:52,460
pointing fingers on the international 
stage,

260
00:16:52,460 --> 00:16:55,330
when ever there was a oppressive regime,

261
00:16:55,330 --> 00:16:58,199
where journalists and bloggers were 
suppressed somehow.

262
00:16:58,199 --> 00:17:01,029
Well and now there was such a case in 
Germany,

263
00:17:01,029 --> 00:17:04,429
where journalist were threatened with 
investigations,

264
00:17:04,429 --> 00:17:10,260
where usually immediately the foreign 
minister would intervene.

265
00:17:10,260 --> 00:17:13,559
That was somehow funny even for us. 
We appeared everywhere:

266
00:17:13,559 --> 00:17:18,109
Here from Nepal to Greek, so in all the
continents,

267
00:17:18,109 --> 00:17:22,420
almost from all counties we received 
articles.

268
00:17:22,420 --> 00:17:24,780
We didn't get them all processed, so we 
were called

269
00:17:24,780 --> 00:17:29,240
every minute for some question from the 
most bizarre media

270
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,940
an the planet. We were very proud to be in 
the "Titanic" (Satire magazine),

271
00:17:32,940 --> 00:17:35,360
with this page of "Landesverrateslust"

272
00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:40,040
*laughing*
(parody of gardening magazine "Landlust")

273
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:45,840
Once "Titanic". Well, the FAZ (frankfurt common newspaper) had a small campaign against us.

274
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:47,840
We thought that was cute, because we 
thought, we can't lose anything,

275
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,900
when a news paper that is 10 times as big

276
00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:54,420
in one unearthly bad article article after 
the other tries to explain,

277
00:17:54,420 --> 00:17:56,960
that we actually are the bad guys and not 
the good ones

278
00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:03,260
and then use words like: "The democracy 
didn't mean anything to

279
00:18:03,260 --> 00:18:07,500
netzpolitik.org or other swarm-like 
collective intelligent beings anyway,

280
00:18:07,500 --> 00:18:11,490
look at child pornography, or 
telecommunications data retention, 
or copyright."

281
00:18:11,490 --> 00:18:19,600
Or the head of FAZ-Feuilleton about some 
animal, that was in our office,

282
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,090
because it was a gift from Anna from 
Japan. The "mascot" got half a page

283
00:18:23,090 --> 00:18:26,290
of scribbling, while we just thought: 
"what mascot???"

284
00:18:26,290 --> 00:18:29,810
We hadn't even noticed it standing there.

285
00:18:29,810 --> 00:18:33,170
Well, in any case that was a very funny 
thing, but at the same time also

286
00:18:33,170 --> 00:18:37,440
somehow completely bizarre. So the FAZ-
politics editors had almost

287
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:42,900
always exactly the opposite opinion

288
00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:46,530
and pointed at us and said: "That are the 
activists, we are the journalists!"

289
00:18:46,530 --> 00:18:50,530
And tried to denounce therefore our press
right privilege.

290
00:18:50,530 --> 00:18:53,500
On the other hand we had thought this 
through the last years.

291
00:18:53,500 --> 00:18:56,650
We had the official confirmation of the 
government, the "Bundespressekonferenz"

292
00:18:56,650 --> 00:18:58,950
and Parliament, that we were journalists,
because they had given us

293
00:18:58,950 --> 00:19:01,570
IDs as journalists.

294
00:19:01,570 --> 00:19:05,500
Then there was some small subplot:

295
00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:09,460
We had thrown out a team of Russia Today,

296
00:19:09,460 --> 00:19:12,110
due to the fact that they were the only 
ones, that did not notify us in advance

297
00:19:12,110 --> 00:19:16,510
and all of the sudden entered the office,
started to film and we had the principle

298
00:19:16,510 --> 00:19:20,740
-that wasn't even against Russia- 
but we would not talk to government

299
00:19:20,740 --> 00:19:25,730
controlled media trying to exploit us to 
somehow relativise the freedom of the

300
00:19:25,730 --> 00:19:28,000
press in the own country.
*applause*

301
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,350
So we said we would not talk to media of
governments *applause*

302
00:19:32,350 --> 00:19:38,610
of countries that suppress journalists, 
that threaten journalists with death.

303
00:19:38,610 --> 00:19:40,940
And Russia is one of those. 
We twittered that.

304
00:19:40,940 --> 00:19:43,930
And then we had suddenly all conspiracy 
theorists

305
00:19:43,930 --> 00:19:47,600
who were... 
I have never received so many death threats

306
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,910
before, because somehow I was responsibly 
for the Ukraine conflict,

307
00:19:50,910 --> 00:19:53,310
because I was 13 years ago in the Green 
party youth. *laughing*

308
00:19:53,310 --> 00:19:56,900
So I didn't really get it, but political
education was

309
00:19:56,900 --> 00:19:59,770
reduced drastically in the last years, 
I think

310
00:19:59,770 --> 00:20:02,270
we need there a bit more money from the
state budget.

311
00:20:02,270 --> 00:20:09,270
*applause*
But let's look at the still unsolved puzzle:

312
00:20:09,270 --> 00:20:12,940
We still wonder: why?
*laughing*

313
00:20:12,940 --> 00:20:17,450
So, why did the General Attorney start the 
investigations in the first place,

314
00:20:17,450 --> 00:20:22,060
if everyone could have seen, that 
there is no will

315
00:20:22,060 --> 00:20:25,350
to harm the republic at all?!

316
00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:28,390
So we can only imagine, that there must 
have been some political pressure

317
00:20:28,390 --> 00:20:31,660
from the Verfassungsschutz, 
from the ministry of internal affairs,

318
00:20:31,660 --> 00:20:36,380
maybe from the chancellery.

319
00:20:36,380 --> 00:20:41,510
But the question is also, why would anyone 
want to be responsible for that?

320
00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:48,810
And also a question was, that later become 
obvious:

321
00:20:48,810 --> 00:20:53,060
When we heard the news in the 
"Deutschlandfunk", that because of

322
00:20:53,060 --> 00:20:57,400
revealing official secrets they started 
investigations against our source,

323
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:03,320
we read the "Cicero"-ruling of 2007 very 
carefully.

324
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:10,110
2005 there are a house search at "Cicero", 
this monthly magazine.

325
00:21:10,110 --> 00:21:13,840
It was about revealing of official secrets, 
some secrets which were disclosed

326
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:18,160
to journalists and they, federal police 
and Schily, tried back then to

327
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:25,130
find hint on the source using a raid in 
in the editorial office.

328
00:21:25,130 --> 00:21:29,380
The supreme court ruled 2007: 
"The revealing of official secrets are no

329
00:21:29,380 --> 00:21:31,330
legitimate reason for a raid."

330
00:21:31,330 --> 00:21:34,070
So they already started our investigation 
on a higher level,

331
00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:36,600
just to test if they could get away with it.

332
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:40,810
If the supreme court has already forbidden 
the other thing,

333
00:21:40,810 --> 00:21:44,580
let's just try "Landesverrat" or something.

334
00:21:44,580 --> 00:21:48,170
We would have liked for the case to be
continued

335
00:21:48,170 --> 00:21:51,650
to get a ruling, but sadly the 
investigations were discontinued

336
00:21:51,650 --> 00:21:55,700
very fast, which took the opportunity

337
00:21:55,700 --> 00:21:57,990
to just clarify this by the courts.

338
00:21:57,990 --> 00:22:02,570
Especially to clarify that we had the right
to do that at all times.

339
00:22:02,570 --> 00:22:07,040
Then, Hans-Georg Maaßen, our president 
of the Verfassungsschutz,

340
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:12,240
the emperor and so on, had already 
declared that on the 4th of May,

341
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:19,660
on the symposium of the Verfassungsschutz, 
where by the way the Deutschlandfunk journalist

342
00:22:19,660 --> 00:22:26,360
was moderating, which later uncovered 
the first hint.

343
00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:30,650
He was saying back then, that our work or 
the leaking with the help of journalists

344
00:22:30,650 --> 00:22:37,090
would damage the work of the secret 
services a great deal.

345
00:22:37,090 --> 00:22:41,070
Furthermore he was talking about some
secret information being printed by

346
00:22:41,070 --> 00:22:44,840
the media. Actually, we did never have a 
printing press, we just

347
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:46,850
put it out in the Internet, but okay...

348
00:22:46,850 --> 00:22:52,150
We did talk this as a reason to release a 
new sticker series,

349
00:22:52,150 --> 00:22:59,150
you can get some later, at front left.
*applause*

350
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:05,350
It was very interesting to, how Maaßen
tried to make excuses

351
00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:08,610
all the time, that he was innocent, that 
he just did his duty and

352
00:23:08,610 --> 00:23:10,480
that someone had to do this.

353
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,020
We now know, that in the last years there 
were just

354
00:23:14,020 --> 00:23:19,900
just three cases were filed, concerning 
well, revealing official secrets,

355
00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:24,250
or generally the leaking of documents
to journalists from the

356
00:23:24,250 --> 00:23:29,030
secret sevices. Three cases and two of 
them were us.

357
00:23:29,030 --> 00:23:31,160
*applause*
The BND did do something like this yet.

358
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,920
But he was saying: "That is completely 
normal!!" Tried to suggest, that that was

359
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,570
completely usual procedure and that he 
by the way had nothing to do

360
00:23:39,570 --> 00:23:43,480
with it, because the charges were pressed 
against unknown.

361
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:49,060
At some point we got the document,

362
00:23:49,060 --> 00:23:52,970
it looked like this. 
Which is like right in your face.

363
00:23:52,970 --> 00:23:54,990
This charge against unknown,

364
00:23:54,990 --> 00:23:57,300
even featuring our names.

365
00:23:57,300 --> 00:23:59,080
More than anything the Verfassungsschutz 
had managed

366
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,030
in two files to write my name two times 
wrong.

367
00:24:02,030 --> 00:24:03,040
*laughing*

368
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,910
I mean luckily the is not a single person 
in Germany

369
00:24:06,910 --> 00:24:10,770
that would have such a name, but the 
problem was,

370
00:24:10,770 --> 00:24:14,390
what would it mean, if your were suspected 
due to

371
00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:16,600
a wrong name?

372
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,440
Okay, I have to hurry a bit!

373
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,540
Our lawyers later only got censored 
documents, better to say...

374
00:24:21,540 --> 00:24:24,530
-hu? why did it proceed atomatically?-

375
00:24:24,530 --> 00:24:31,450
... just censored files, we think that all 
the time they kept,

376
00:24:31,450 --> 00:24:33,050
two versions parallel.

377
00:24:33,050 --> 00:24:36,330
There are some notices of conversations
between General Attorney and

378
00:24:36,330 --> 00:24:38,910
Verfassungsschutz, which were held by 
phone or email,

379
00:24:38,910 --> 00:24:41,130
but do not appear there.

380
00:24:41,130 --> 00:24:44,300
Our lawyers found that to be very curious, 
we would have liked to publish

381
00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:47,310
files, but we are not allowed to see them, 
cause they are ranged as more secret

382
00:24:47,310 --> 00:24:50,590
than the documents, we published,

383
00:24:50,590 --> 00:24:54,240
'cause the Verfassungsschutz....
*applause*

384
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:59,500
The Verfassungsschutz had to explain or 
had notified the General Attorney in the files

385
00:24:59,500 --> 00:25:02,720
why we had revealed relevant secrets and

386
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,460
well, the assessment of the 
Verfassungsschutz is more secret than

387
00:25:05,460 --> 00:25:08,660
the documents we published. So incredibly 
bizzare!

388
00:25:08,660 --> 00:25:17,000
At some point we noticed that, oh, 
investigations of "Landesverrat" mean,

389
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:23,130
they can legally tap us actually since 2, 
3 months.

390
00:25:23,130 --> 00:25:26,840
That was possible, but for a few moments 
it felt for us like a problem...

391
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,790
-well, hu, what just happened? -

392
00:25:30,790 --> 00:25:34,290
...like a problem, because we thought, 
okay now we could have a real

393
00:25:34,290 --> 00:25:36,320
problem, if they bugged everything at our 
place.

394
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,070
They told us afterwards, that the BKA 
(police) just had done

395
00:25:38,070 --> 00:25:43,370
low level investigations,
well, hu, you can trust them more or less

396
00:25:43,370 --> 00:25:47,250
at least I think. The problem is, 
how believable is the statement of

397
00:25:47,250 --> 00:25:49,190
the Government, that the Verfassungsschutz

398
00:25:49,190 --> 00:25:51,170
did not watch us? I mean who should've 
controlled that?

399
00:25:51,170 --> 00:25:55,830
If you want know more about the risks ask 
(mandatory drug cover statement)
the victims of the NSU.

400
00:25:55,830 --> 00:25:58,170
(Neonazi underground killer group)
*aplause*

401
00:25:58,170 --> 00:26:03,810
Then we had the problem, that many parts 
of the government didn't...

402
00:26:03,810 --> 00:26:07,600
have not told the truth in the media.

403
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:12,260
Here is Emily Haber, secretary of security 
in the ministry of internal affairs,

404
00:26:12,260 --> 00:26:15,140
who said: "Well, yes, the president of the 
Verfassungsschutz has

405
00:26:15,140 --> 00:26:17,410
stopped at some point" and that was it.

406
00:26:17,410 --> 00:26:19,390
Else we had never known.

407
00:26:19,390 --> 00:26:21,930
Afterwards it became clear, that half of 
the ministry for internal affairs

408
00:26:21,930 --> 00:26:25,000
was informed about the cases and 
investigations and so on.

409
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,000
(Minister) Thomas de Maizière of course 
didn't noticed anything, Quote:

410
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,620
"The necessary criminal investigation of 
the culprit or culprits only

411
00:26:31,620 --> 00:26:34,420
gain any political importance due to the 
media coverage and discussion,

412
00:26:34,420 --> 00:26:38,080
which then made it necessary to 
personally inform the minister."

413
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,910
This is how you describe the system of 
Thomas de Maizère.

414
00:26:41,910 --> 00:26:46,590
Fun Fact: The husband of Emily Haber is a 
diplomat, who was spied on

415
00:26:46,590 --> 00:26:52,360
in the context of the BND-Selectors 
scandal.

416
00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:56,310
Well, then there was a huge 
"Bundespressekonferenz" about this 
(press conference with deputies of the government)

417
00:26:56,310 --> 00:26:59,820
on Monday, after we published it, 
over one hour with a lot of

418
00:26:59,820 --> 00:27:04,230
questions. Here the Speaker for the BMI 
was like: "Well I talked to everyone,

419
00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:07,830
who had a relevant position, and nobody 
knew anything" right?

420
00:27:07,830 --> 00:27:13,110
That is a most brilliant rhetoric, in other 
words: obfuscation tactic.

421
00:27:13,110 --> 00:27:18,030
Later it became clear: At least after 
the 21th April the government knew

422
00:27:18,030 --> 00:27:21,420
the plans and the investigations and
we assume, that

423
00:27:21,420 --> 00:27:23,700
they at that point they discussed 
strategies.

424
00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:26,850
But who took part, we don't know, because 
the chancellery does not

425
00:27:26,850 --> 00:27:30,320
take records of such important meetings.

426
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,340
But then the Green party questioned the 
ministers of the government

427
00:27:33,340 --> 00:27:36,850
one by one, whoms deputies had taken 
part and

428
00:27:36,850 --> 00:27:39,150
the different ministries had to answer,

429
00:27:39,150 --> 00:27:42,170
that there deputies had been there, so it 
was possible to tell,

430
00:27:42,170 --> 00:27:47,220
who had been there, but none wanted to 
take responsibility.

431
00:27:47,220 --> 00:27:52,660
In addition the Green party asked, if it 
was normal to talk about such

432
00:27:52,660 --> 00:27:56,520
procedures with foreseeable large, 
political meaning

433
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,610
without reports or taking any records,

434
00:27:58,610 --> 00:28:03,310
and the government was like: 
Well, yes that's normal, no panic!

435
00:28:03,310 --> 00:28:06,210
The ministry of justice knew already two 
months in advance

436
00:28:06,210 --> 00:28:09,560
including the minister, who declared after the 
media coverage then,

437
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,460
that this had to be ended now very fast.

438
00:28:12,460 --> 00:28:14,230
We just wonder why didn't he do that 
before?

439
00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:15,600
Well, I have to hurry!

440
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,700
Let's come to...

441
00:28:21,910 --> 00:28:24,630
-hu? Never happened before!

442
00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:27,780
Need a new Laptop!-

443
00:28:27,780 --> 00:28:29,510
What do we learn?
Our requests:

444
00:28:29,510 --> 00:28:33,770
First off, we need a new definition of 
official secrets.

445
00:28:33,770 --> 00:28:37,240
At the moment the authorities decide for 
themself, what is a secret, and we think

446
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,060
that is wrong! We need a new definition 
of "Staatsgeheimnis",

447
00:28:41,060 --> 00:28:44,670
so that developments of history in the 
public interest are not

448
00:28:44,670 --> 00:28:48,790
secrets and are not covered by either
§94 "Landesverrat",

449
00:28:48,790 --> 00:28:52,420
or §95 "Offenbarung von Staatsgeheimissen"
(revealing of official secrets)

450
00:28:52,420 --> 00:28:55,100
*applause*
That would help journalists,

451
00:28:55,100 --> 00:28:59,290
to be threatened by this sword of Damocles
(A danger constantly hovering over you).

452
00:28:59,290 --> 00:29:04,480
We need a protection of whistle blowers 
act, that deserved that name!

453
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,160
Germany is a developing country, when it 
comes to that.

454
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:15,820
That can not be!
yeayea, I'll hurry!

455
00:29:15,820 --> 00:29:20,750
Besides we were lucky, Andre and I are 
both professional journalists in our

456
00:29:20,750 --> 00:29:23,070
editorial office, but there are others, 
who write

457
00:29:23,070 --> 00:29:27,570
for us voluntarily. If they had published 
this story,

458
00:29:27,570 --> 00:29:30,340
they wouldn't have had the same rights 
we did, for example

459
00:29:30,340 --> 00:29:33,680
they had not right to remain silent, or
better a court

460
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,130
had to clarify that, if they have, because

461
00:29:37,130 --> 00:29:41,830
The legal definition for freedom of the 
press talks about profession.

462
00:29:41,830 --> 00:29:46,800
We say: Freedom of the press has to apply 
for everyone, who submits to journalistic

463
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,080
standards and duties and work as a 
journalist and not just for those,

464
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,730
who do this for money!
*huge applause*

465
00:29:54,730 --> 00:30:01,710
Also to insure the protection of the 
sources,

466
00:30:01,710 --> 00:30:05,510
the Telecommunications data retention 
has to go! There are many other reasons

467
00:30:05,510 --> 00:30:07,650
for that, but I say it now just from a 
journalistic perspective.

468
00:30:07,650 --> 00:30:10,220
*applause*
And most importantly the new law against

469
00:30:10,220 --> 00:30:13,440
"Datenhelerei" has to go! And we will 
support a lawsuit against it!

470
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,830
We need to quit mass surveillance

471
00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:17,830
and to control the secret services!

472
00:30:17,830 --> 00:30:20,320
So the real Scandal, besides 
"Landesverrat" is,

473
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,090
that two years after the Snowden leaks

474
00:30:23,090 --> 00:30:26,900
this is seen as test for future cases, 
and the surveillance is increasing

475
00:30:26,900 --> 00:30:30,420
massively supported by the government!
What we wanted to say:

476
00:30:30,420 --> 00:30:35,490
Never give up! We will continue, despite 
mass surveillance and so on.

477
00:30:35,490 --> 00:30:38,090
We were a little disappointed that the 
campaign did not last so long,

478
00:30:38,090 --> 00:30:40,950
we had still a lot of ideas, what we 
could do.

479
00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:45,780
We would be glad to receive more documents 
and as a Thanks for the investigations

480
00:30:45,780 --> 00:30:50,450
we leaked the BND-strategies for 
extending the net surveillance.

481
00:30:50,450 --> 00:30:57,450
You can read all on our page.
*applause*

482
00:30:58,010 --> 00:31:02,990
And so, Thanks to all of you
for your support!

483
00:31:02,990 --> 00:31:06,200
It helped a great deal to have so many 
supporters

484
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,490
in the civil society, in the media, 
in our communities

485
00:31:09,490 --> 00:31:13,340
else we would not have survived this.

486
00:31:13,340 --> 00:31:16,690
So, if you are in favour of our work, 
you can support us:

487
00:31:16,690 --> 00:31:21,290
netzpolitik.org/spenden or we have
left over some

488
00:31:21,290 --> 00:31:29,140
very cool T-shirts and Hoodies and bags. 
There are somewhere...

489
00:31:29,140 --> 00:31:32,170
Where are they? A right! Here in front. 
There are stickers, too,

490
00:31:32,170 --> 00:31:35,620
featuring Hans-Georg Maaßen, else... 
*laughing*

491
00:31:35,620 --> 00:31:39,720
Thank you very much! Do more "Landesverrat" 
and have fun on the congress!

492
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:46,720
*applause*

493
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,400
*music*