1
00:00:00,350 --> 00:00:11,410
Angel: Our speaker today is Evan Roth.

2
00:00:11,410 --> 00:00:16,039
He's a multi-disciplinary American artist
based in Paris.

3
00:00:16,039 --> 00:00:20,110
He's working with sculptures, prints,
videos and websites

4
00:00:20,110 --> 00:00:26,410
and in the upcoming hour during his talk
he'll take you on a journey about art,

5
00:00:26,410 --> 00:00:30,910
politics, culture,
the misuse of communication technologies

6
00:00:30,910 --> 00:00:34,339
and how all of these are connected
to each other.

7
00:00:34,339 --> 00:00:37,670
Please give a warm round of applause
for Evan Roth, our speaker today!

8
00:00:37,670 --> 00:00:39,670
Thank you very much!

9
00:00:39,670 --> 00:00:41,159
*Applause*

10
00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:49,960
Evan: Hi everybody, thanks so much for coming,
I'm really humbled and honoured to be here.

11
00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,949
It's my first time on this side of the internet
with you all, so thanks so much for joining.

12
00:00:53,949 --> 00:00:59,030
Ya, my name is Evan. I'm an American,
I'm living in Paris at the moment.

13
00:00:59,030 --> 00:01:02,670
I'm an artist, and so I'm gonna talk a bit
about the art I've been making the last few

14
00:01:02,670 --> 00:01:02,799
years,

15
00:01:02,799 --> 00:01:08,240
how it's changed as the internet's changed,
and hopefully weave some threads through here.

16
00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:12,490
The work I'm making primarily shows up
in these three areas of the gallery,

17
00:01:12,490 --> 00:01:13,860
public space and the internet.

18
00:01:13,860 --> 00:01:18,890
The mediums I'm using are often quite different,
but historically the work I've been making

19
00:01:18,890 --> 00:01:23,719
has been connected by this relationship
between misuse and empowerment,

20
00:01:23,719 --> 00:01:29,429
and how misuse can kind of be this lens
that we, as we all know, look at technologies

21
00:01:29,429 --> 00:01:32,960
but lots of things in life around us
is sort of see things that have other

22
00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:35,270
sort of unintended uses, right.
Female voice in bg: Introducing the iRobot

23
00:01:35,270 --> 00:01:35,429
robot..

24
00:01:35,429 --> 00:01:42,329
Evan: To make things, like consumer domestic
products much more interesting, right,

25
00:01:42,329 --> 00:01:45,820
so this is the doomba,
this old old internet meme, right,

26
00:01:45,820 --> 00:01:47,490
*laughter*
but, so good, right,

27
00:01:47,490 --> 00:01:49,729
such a wonderful gift that the internet gave
us

28
00:01:49,729 --> 00:01:50,490
with the doomba,

29
00:01:50,490 --> 00:01:52,700
like I can't wait until.. I really feel like
this

30
00:01:52,700 --> 00:01:53,979
should be in the permanent collection

31
00:01:53,979 --> 00:01:56,600
of the Museum of Modern Arts,
this is one of my favourite sculptures

32
00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:58,340
I've seen in the last few years.

33
00:01:58,340 --> 00:02:02,700
But for me, I tried to have like doomba vision
when I'm doing activism

34
00:02:02,700 --> 00:02:05,009
or when I'm doing art
and thinking about like

35
00:02:05,009 --> 00:02:09,360
what else can I ducttape knifes onto
to make it more interesting than it was

36
00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:15,130
the way the manufacturer sort of
er, advertised it to me, right?

37
00:02:15,130 --> 00:02:20,160
Ahm, and so that's kind of a main inspiration
for a lot of the art work that I look at,

38
00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:24,520
that I'm a fan of
and that I'm trying to make in my own practice.

39
00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:29,000
And so two maybe more specific themes
I'm gonna try to show through different projects

40
00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:34,420
are 1) this idea of technological empowerment,
which is part of the reason I became an artist,

41
00:02:34,420 --> 00:02:38,520
and the other this idea of visualisation
through misuse.

42
00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:43,760
And my kind of .. my history with technological
empowerment went back to the ..

43
00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,080
when I was an architect.
I was at university and I was..

44
00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,600
I had one class about computers,
that my dad sort of forced me to take,

45
00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,130
and I didn't think
it was that interesting.

46
00:02:52,130 --> 00:02:56,370
This was back when I was literally still doing,
like, graphite with a straight edge on vellum,

47
00:02:56,370 --> 00:02:56,590
right?

48
00:02:56,590 --> 00:02:58,700
This was like the first class where they're
gonna

49
00:02:58,700 --> 00:03:01,010
do things like 3D modelling on Autocad,

50
00:03:01,010 --> 00:03:05,410
and there was one week about the internet.
And I had like this really vivid memory

51
00:03:05,410 --> 00:03:08,540
where the professor brought up
this fetch window on an old Mac,

52
00:03:08,540 --> 00:03:11,750
and like edited it in a little text document
and dragged it in and the dog

53
00:03:11,750 --> 00:03:14,290
ran it up to the internet and then
he'd refresh on the browser

54
00:03:14,290 --> 00:03:18,110
and it updated.
And of course this is like small news now,

55
00:03:18,110 --> 00:03:20,530
but for me this was huge.
I couldn't believe it,

56
00:03:20,530 --> 00:03:25,660
like I really just couldn't believe
that for free I could say anything to anybody

57
00:03:25,660 --> 00:03:29,360
and nobody could really censor it.
It just seemed like it was too good to be

58
00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:30,070
true.

59
00:03:30,070 --> 00:03:32,760
And that was kind of the death
knell on my architectural career.

60
00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,030
Like I would go on to graduate
and work for a couple of years,

61
00:03:35,030 --> 00:03:38,570
but very quickly I was falling in love
with the internet in the early kind-of-like

62
00:03:38,570 --> 00:03:39,410
flash days,

63
00:03:39,410 --> 00:03:42,060
remember, that time was really fun.

64
00:03:42,060 --> 00:03:44,670
And so I was coming home from
my architecture job and sort of trying to

65
00:03:44,670 --> 00:03:45,630
learn code

66
00:03:45,630 --> 00:03:48,410
and trying .. kind of had my first introduction
to open source,

67
00:03:48,410 --> 00:03:51,910
like reading Joshua Davis' praystation FLA
files,

68
00:03:51,910 --> 00:03:54,250
if anybody remembers that day.

69
00:03:54,250 --> 00:03:57,760
But that was kind of my introduction to technology,
and it was really empowering,

70
00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:01,680
like, it was a feeling, that I still remember
and try to, like, hone in on

71
00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,810
when I'm getting more depressed these days.

72
00:04:03,810 --> 00:04:09,580
And so, how this shows up in some of my work,
I'm gonna start around, like, 2005

73
00:04:09,580 --> 00:04:13,180
with some projects that I've been doing
up to projects that I've been doing right

74
00:04:13,180 --> 00:04:14,730
now.

75
00:04:14,730 --> 00:04:19,839
Back in 2005/2006 I co-founded an organisation
called Graffiti Reseach Lab

76
00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:25,180
with a friend named James Powderly,
while we were in residency at IBM in New York.

77
00:04:25,180 --> 00:04:29,050
And the basic idea we had with
Graffiti Research Lab was that

78
00:04:29,050 --> 00:04:32,170
technologies were getting a lot cheaper
to the point where they're almost getting

79
00:04:32,170 --> 00:04:32,730
disposable,

80
00:04:32,730 --> 00:04:37,160
like LEDs, digital projectors were getting
really cheap, lasers were getting really cheap,

81
00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:41,380
and we were interested in trying to make projects
that would start to get graffiti writers and

82
00:04:41,380 --> 00:04:41,890
activists

83
00:04:41,890 --> 00:04:44,290
talking to the
free software movement more.

84
00:04:44,290 --> 00:04:48,450
Like have a common dialogue for
these two very different groups of toolbuilders.

85
00:04:48,450 --> 00:04:51,560
And so, with that as, like, a premise,
we sort of thought of ourselves

86
00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,470
as the Q branch for graffiti writers, right?

87
00:04:54,470 --> 00:04:57,190
I'll just show one quick project.
This was called 'Laser Tag'.

88
00:04:57,190 --> 00:05:01,760
This was a in retrospect very simple
computer vision project,

89
00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,389
but we would basically go out with
a digital projector

90
00:05:05,389 --> 00:05:09,040
and we'd invite activists and
we'd invite graffiti writers,

91
00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:13,300
and we'd set up on this sort of
biggest buildings that we could find in town.

92
00:05:13,300 --> 00:05:16,389
And we would just have this kind of open system,
like, the only rules that we had with the

93
00:05:16,389 --> 00:05:16,650
project

94
00:05:16,650 --> 00:05:19,320
was that there couldn't be a censor button.
People had to be allowed to say

95
00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,420
whatever they wanted.
Most of the times we did it without permission,

96
00:05:22,420 --> 00:05:26,590
which isn't saying much because
at the time there wasn't a lot of people

97
00:05:26,590 --> 00:05:28,320
projecting in public so there weren't a lot
of

98
00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:30,920
sort of laws in this sort of grey area.

99
00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:35,350
So even when the police usually came
it was more of a conversation than a ticket.

100
00:05:35,350 --> 00:05:38,240
And so we were making,
this is one example of lots of projects

101
00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,090
we were making where it was kind of about
amplifying free speech,

102
00:05:42,090 --> 00:05:45,460
like trying to use technologies
that were getting cheaper and cheaper and

103
00:05:45,460 --> 00:05:45,740
cheaper

104
00:05:45,740 --> 00:05:50,680
to level that playing field between people
who live in cities and people who advertise

105
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:51,080
in cities,

106
00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,430
and what kind of visual language
and visual communication we have in both those

107
00:05:54,430 --> 00:05:56,560
places.

108
00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:01,930
So that was the work Graffiti Research Lab
was doing.

109
00:06:01,930 --> 00:06:04,110
At some point we realized with Graffiti Research
Lab

110
00:06:04,110 --> 00:06:06,940
that the sort of technical hacking we were
doing

111
00:06:06,940 --> 00:06:10,950
was much less interesting than the
more social hacking we were doing.

112
00:06:10,950 --> 00:06:14,120
And we also, we were getting much more
press than we deserved,

113
00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,710
and we were trying to figure out
why that was happening,

114
00:06:16,710 --> 00:06:20,430
and one thing we sorta came to was
we were sorta fulfilling this narrative

115
00:06:20,430 --> 00:06:23,720
that the media wants, which is
that we are living in the future now, right?

116
00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,790
Which is why everyone is reporting on
hoverboards now, like, ???

117
00:06:26,790 --> 00:06:29,760
we're here, you know?
And graffiti writers with lasers

118
00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,900
was one of those apparently, like,
monumental future points that we'd hit,

119
00:06:33,900 --> 00:06:36,810
and so the media was trying to write
about our projects,

120
00:06:36,810 --> 00:06:40,270
and we realized that this was sort of
a social hack where we could start to

121
00:06:40,270 --> 00:06:42,680
empower other people with maybe
more marginalized voices

122
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,060
to get in the newspapers more often.

123
00:06:45,060 --> 00:06:49,300
And so, our mission changed slightly,
and so we kind of morphed the energy that

124
00:06:49,300 --> 00:06:49,490
we had

125
00:06:49,490 --> 00:06:52,770
with Graffiti Research Lab into this group
called the Free Art and Technology Lab,

126
00:06:52,770 --> 00:06:56,540
which didn't really have a sort of
set code or manifesto,

127
00:06:56,540 --> 00:07:02,210
but the basic idea was that we were gonna
use what even Franco called radical entertainment,

128
00:07:02,210 --> 00:07:05,270
This idea that you could make sort of engaging
media on the internet

129
00:07:05,270 --> 00:07:08,240
that people are gonna want to click on,
not because they agree with the politics,

130
00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:12,520
because they wanna see people
acting a fool in the streets, right?

131
00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,990
So I'll show, I'll show one project here.

132
00:07:14,990 --> 00:07:19,400
This was from a suite of projects
we did in Berlin, gosh, a few years ago now,

133
00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,240
called 'Fuck Google', where we came together
to make Fuck Google projects.

134
00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:27,300
So this was one where we rented a..
actually, Aram Bartholl was over here,

135
00:07:27,300 --> 00:07:29,180
you can see him seated there in the driver's
seat,

136
00:07:29,180 --> 00:07:31,080
rented this car for very cheap,

137
00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,139
bought a roof rack off of ebay i think,
for, like, 15 Euros,

138
00:07:34,139 --> 00:07:37,330
and then everything above the roof
was just cardboard, ducttape and wires.

139
00:07:37,330 --> 00:07:40,860
There was nothing technical in this project,
it was purely a social hack.

140
00:07:40,860 --> 00:07:44,949
And this was probably my second greatest
technological empowering moment.

141
00:07:44,949 --> 00:07:46,770
Driving the google car is fucking amazing.

142
00:07:46,770 --> 00:07:50,190
Here is what that looks like.

143
00:07:50,190 --> 00:07:52,550
*music*

144
00:07:52,550 --> 00:07:54,919
*laughter*

145
00:07:54,919 --> 00:08:07,530
So once we had the car,
we were just brainstorming,

146
00:08:07,530 --> 00:08:12,500
like, what are the little skits we could
play out, that would kind of put google

147
00:08:12,500 --> 00:08:16,720
in a compromised position.
And so, yeah, it was breaking down.

148
00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:21,080
This is the drinking and driving.
*Laughter*

149
00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:22,610
*applause*

150
00:08:22,610 --> 00:08:31,050
And if you wanna know how strong google's
brand is, this is a staged carjacking,

151
00:08:31,050 --> 00:08:35,828
where someone off the street
risks their life to save a corporate automobile

152
00:08:35,828 --> 00:08:58,600
engaged in spying practices.
*Laughter*

153
00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:04,059
And so the idea is that we were then leaking
these on the internet and

154
00:09:04,059 --> 00:09:08,839
this was a long time ago back when
we were not sure if google was evil or not,

155
00:09:08,839 --> 00:09:09,100
right?

156
00:09:09,100 --> 00:09:10,399
So this discussion was happening.

157
00:09:10,399 --> 00:09:12,769
It's happening more in Germany than in
other places, actually.

158
00:09:12,769 --> 00:09:16,860
But the idea was to get those conversations
happening outside of places like this,

159
00:09:16,860 --> 00:09:21,040
and outside of places like our gallery
and art institutions and more in, like,

160
00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:23,449
the mainstream press,
and, like, people over coffee

161
00:09:23,449 --> 00:09:23,999
picking up this story

162
00:09:23,999 --> 00:09:25,759
and starting to talk about these issues.

163
00:09:25,759 --> 00:09:29,850
That was kind of the idea behind
F.A.T. Lab function.

164
00:09:29,850 --> 00:09:33,119
I was also maintaining a solo practice
at the same time as I was doing these

165
00:09:33,119 --> 00:09:35,980
more collaborative projects.

166
00:09:35,980 --> 00:09:41,089
This is one called 'Free Speech' I did
in Vienna in 2000.. I don't know, like 3 or

167
00:09:41,089 --> 00:09:42,470
4 years ago now?

168
00:09:42,470 --> 00:09:48,160
This is again, like, a very simple technology,
this is another rented car with vinyl letters

169
00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,720
of a mobile phone number, mobile Viennese
phone number,

170
00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,420
and an arrow pointing to a loudspeaker
on the roof.

171
00:09:53,420 --> 00:09:55,449
And that's the only input you get
as the viewer.

172
00:09:55,449 --> 00:09:58,069
And we just drove this around Vienna
for three days,

173
00:09:58,069 --> 00:10:01,809
and people that were sort of curious
enough to call that would have their phone

174
00:10:01,809 --> 00:10:04,540
routed directly to the speaker,
and there was noone on the other line,

175
00:10:04,540 --> 00:10:07,679
so their first realisation that they were
sort of in the system when they would just

176
00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,439
hear themselves, like,
'Hello?' echoing throughout the streets.

177
00:10:11,439 --> 00:10:19,029
I'll show a bit of that that looks like.

178
00:10:19,029 --> 00:10:27,759
*noise*
Female voice: Hallo? Hallo!

179
00:10:27,759 --> 00:10:34,740
Ich bin der Champion!

180
00:10:34,740 --> 00:10:39,970
Male voice: *Laughter*

181
00:10:39,970 --> 00:10:41,709
*noise*

182
00:10:41,709 --> 00:10:48,689
Children: Hallo! Fick dich!

183
00:10:48,689 --> 00:10:59,160
Male voice: Laura! Ich liebe dich!

184
00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:00,910
*Music*

185
00:11:00,910 --> 00:11:07,889
Group voices: Hallo? Niiiiice!

186
00:11:07,889 --> 00:11:08,149
So fresh, man. TschĂś.

187
00:11:08,149 --> 00:11:09,569
Evan: And so, like, that guy was maybe my
favourite,

188
00:11:09,569 --> 00:11:10,749
or maybe that guy who picked up

189
00:11:10,749 --> 00:11:14,860
and just started laughing,
even though when confronted

190
00:11:14,860 --> 00:11:14,929
with this sort of

191
00:11:14,929 --> 00:11:17,689
louder voice in public, and they were..
maybe thought that were gonna have,

192
00:11:17,689 --> 00:11:21,350
when they set out, commute to work or
go to coffee,

193
00:11:21,350 --> 00:11:25,339
even though maybe they didn't choose
to say these more poignant points, you know?

194
00:11:25,339 --> 00:11:30,980
Maybe just the laughter to me was this
more pure feeling of what technological

195
00:11:30,980 --> 00:11:33,519
empowerment feels like, right, like
just laughing on the streets

196
00:11:33,519 --> 00:11:35,449
because you kind of have
this empowered voice.

197
00:11:35,449 --> 00:11:37,689
Like, that, that's the feeling I wanna
get as an artist and so,

198
00:11:37,689 --> 00:11:41,369
some of the work I was doing was trying
to sort of set up, set up these systems

199
00:11:41,369 --> 00:11:45,709
that would allow other people
to have these sort of experiences.

200
00:11:45,709 --> 00:11:48,269
So again, like very simple tools for
empowerment,

201
00:11:48,269 --> 00:11:50,689
very low-tech tools for empowerment.

202
00:11:50,689 --> 00:11:54,769
The other thread that I was doing throughout
that period and maybe more so

203
00:11:54,769 --> 00:11:55,410
in the last 3 years

204
00:11:55,410 --> 00:11:58,470
has to do with sort of this idea of visualizing
the invisible

205
00:11:58,470 --> 00:12:01,989
which I think is something that artists wrestle
with quite a bit.

206
00:12:01,989 --> 00:12:05,220
And specifically thinking about visualizing
the network,

207
00:12:05,220 --> 00:12:08,009
thinking about visualizing the internet
and how the internet is sort of touching us

208
00:12:08,009 --> 00:12:12,939
and we have this new connection culturally
to each other.

209
00:12:12,939 --> 00:12:16,220
And so I did.. this was maybe 3 or 4 years
ago,

210
00:12:16,220 --> 00:12:19,439
I did this sort of homage to wikipedia.

211
00:12:19,439 --> 00:12:21,749
I still love surfing wikipedia.

212
00:12:21,749 --> 00:12:25,679
For me as someone who sort of maybe has
a bit of nostalgia for the old days of the

213
00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:25,929
internet,

214
00:12:25,929 --> 00:12:29,100
I feel like wikipedia is one of these
few holdouts on the internet

215
00:12:29,100 --> 00:12:32,470
where there is semi-egoless uploads
still happening.

216
00:12:32,470 --> 00:12:33,709
You know?

217
00:12:33,709 --> 00:12:36,489
It's not necessarily...
people are making uploads not because

218
00:12:36,489 --> 00:12:41,389
they're trying to craft their own avatar online,
but they.. because they really want to explain

219
00:12:41,389 --> 00:12:44,709
how a doroknot (?) functions,
or they really want to explain

220
00:12:44,709 --> 00:12:50,610
how a boxer engine works, right,
it's content that if Konstant were here

221
00:12:50,610 --> 00:12:53,660
he would call media with an alibi, right?

222
00:12:53,660 --> 00:12:57,559
It's media that has reason for existing
beyond just sort of supporting our own

223
00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:00,110
online visions of who we are
and who we aren't.

224
00:13:00,110 --> 00:13:01,699
And so for this reason I really
love wikipedia.

225
00:13:01,699 --> 00:13:06,329
It feels like this really sort of
free and honest place to surf sometimes.

226
00:13:06,329 --> 00:13:11,139
And so, I made this series of eleven websites,
kind of as a monument to wikipedia,

227
00:13:11,139 --> 00:13:15,209
where I spent a summer just surfing
for animated GIFs on wikipedia

228
00:13:15,209 --> 00:13:17,879
which was a really awesome way
to spend the summer.

229
00:13:17,879 --> 00:13:21,420
And then, when I found ones that
I would wanna kind of use as raw materials

230
00:13:21,420 --> 00:13:24,499
I would just copy and paste it
a couple of hundred times

231
00:13:24,499 --> 00:13:27,300
and rename the files so
that when the browser tries to load it in

232
00:13:27,300 --> 00:13:31,679
it doesn't cache them all immediately.
It thinks they're all separate files.

233
00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:33,300
And so what ends up happening
is..

234
00:13:33,300 --> 00:13:36,470
And of course, it can't load them
all at once, right,

235
00:13:36,470 --> 00:13:39,739
so it just starts loading them in
as the packets are sort of delivered

236
00:13:39,739 --> 00:13:44,869
in this linear fashion, and..
so the pieces never quite look the same.

237
00:13:44,869 --> 00:13:47,129
They're all...
in a sense these kind of unique views

238
00:13:47,129 --> 00:13:50,399
were depending on your process,
your speed and what browser you're using

239
00:13:50,399 --> 00:13:51,970
and how fast your internet connection is.

240
00:13:51,970 --> 00:13:55,689
They're always gonna load in slightly different
as the packets sort of traverse the network

241
00:13:55,689 --> 00:13:57,709
in this linear fashion.

242
00:13:57,709 --> 00:14:00,829
And so what you get is.. are these compositions
that are very simple

243
00:14:00,829 --> 00:14:03,749
but they're not, in this case,
like a perfect circle, right?

244
00:14:03,749 --> 00:14:07,559
You kind of see this visualization
of the data kind of as it's going

245
00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:08,399
through the network.

246
00:14:08,399 --> 00:14:12,980
And if you view these same pieces
in the TOR browser,

247
00:14:12,980 --> 00:14:15,059
which I don't have to explain
what it is in this audience,

248
00:14:15,059 --> 00:14:18,610
which is really fun for the first time,
*laughing*

249
00:14:18,610 --> 00:14:21,319
you get get a sense of how...
so this is the exact same website

250
00:14:21,319 --> 00:14:24,139
just viewed through TOR.
And you can see in the piece

251
00:14:24,139 --> 00:14:28,600
how the composition is altered, right,
because, as the pieces are moving around

252
00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,170
and it's being rerouted to different nodes,
they kind of come back together

253
00:14:31,170 --> 00:14:33,100
in a way that's very different
than the way it's happening

254
00:14:33,100 --> 00:14:36,119
as a straight connection
through Firefox, and so

255
00:14:36,119 --> 00:14:40,769
the resulting composition is less fluid,
it's more staggered and you can kind of..

256
00:14:40,769 --> 00:14:47,429
There is some kind of visual clue
of how that piece went through the network.

257
00:14:47,429 --> 00:14:51,019
Another series I've been doing
for several years now is..

258
00:14:51,019 --> 00:14:54,549
I've been archiving my own browsing folder,
my cache directory,

259
00:14:54,549 --> 00:14:57,949
I've been basically archiving that
every couple of weeks.

260
00:14:57,949 --> 00:15:01,569
And then when I get invited to show a piece
from that series I just basically..

261
00:15:01,569 --> 00:15:05,209
I use a image packing algorithm,
so just pack all these images

262
00:15:05,209 --> 00:15:08,569
into the smallest amount of room possible,
and I'll make these prints

263
00:15:08,569 --> 00:15:11,459
that are just straight print-outs of
my internet cache.

264
00:15:11,459 --> 00:15:14,879
So this is what one month
of my internet cache looks like.

265
00:15:14,879 --> 00:15:18,369
That is what 3 months looks like.

266
00:15:18,369 --> 00:15:20,059
They're relatively uncensored.

267
00:15:20,059 --> 00:15:23,480
I go through it to look and make sure,
'cause sometimes my wife will use the computer,

268
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,439
I'll make sure there is nothing of hers
she doesn't want on there,

269
00:15:26,439 --> 00:15:29,379
and I check it for banking details,
but besides that it's pretty..

270
00:15:29,379 --> 00:15:31,759
pretty much uncensored.

271
00:15:31,759 --> 00:15:35,910
And so, it's meant to be..
I kind of think of them as self portraits.

272
00:15:35,910 --> 00:15:39,449
They're.. I think of them actually more
like false self portraits,

273
00:15:39,449 --> 00:15:43,579
'cause it's.. unless you truly think
that you are your browsing data,

274
00:15:43,579 --> 00:15:46,529
it's not.. it does.. it's..
these prints aren't who I feel like I am.

275
00:15:46,529 --> 00:15:50,309
But in.. I think over the long term
the idea is more they are meant

276
00:15:50,309 --> 00:15:53,470
to be this sort of portrait of the internet
at this one moment in time, right?

277
00:15:53,470 --> 00:15:59,459
And as sort of screen size has changed
and screens shift from our laps to our pockets,

278
00:15:59,459 --> 00:16:02,929
and as browser resolutions
and all these standards change,

279
00:16:02,929 --> 00:16:04,839
and the kind of fabric
of the web changes,

280
00:16:04,839 --> 00:16:08,179
and these prints hopefully,
when someone digs out of my basement,

281
00:16:08,179 --> 00:16:10,569
like, 20 years from now,
they'll have these sort of prints

282
00:16:10,569 --> 00:16:13,029
of what the internet felt like
in this one moment in time.

283
00:16:13,029 --> 00:16:16,089
That's the idea anyway.

284
00:16:16,089 --> 00:16:20,959
Another related series has to do
again with this kind of shift from

285
00:16:20,959 --> 00:16:21,929
the screen to the pocket.

286
00:16:21,929 --> 00:16:24,679
Like, I'm really sort of fascinated
with this idea of casual computing

287
00:16:24,679 --> 00:16:26,879
which I feel..
I feel like that move when we started

288
00:16:26,879 --> 00:16:30,739
having computers in our pockets
every day was a really fundamental shift.

289
00:16:30,739 --> 00:16:32,509
And so I had this series called
'Multi-touch Paintings',

290
00:16:32,509 --> 00:16:36,749
that are created just from,
basically just take a piece of tracing paper

291
00:16:36,749 --> 00:16:40,779
and put it over my phone and then
perform the sort of interface tasks

292
00:16:40,779 --> 00:16:41,730
that it asked me to do.

293
00:16:41,730 --> 00:16:46,209
So this one's called
'Slide to unlock'.

294
00:16:46,209 --> 00:16:48,709
This is a.. this one's called
'Zoom in, zoom out'.

295
00:16:48,709 --> 00:16:50,949
And they're literally just ink on paper.

296
00:16:50,949 --> 00:16:54,290
So the capacitive touch still works
through the paper

297
00:16:54,290 --> 00:16:58,069
and it's.. I'm kind of like a,
maybe a short term it's meant to be,

298
00:16:58,069 --> 00:17:01,199
maybe purely a visualization
in a sense.

299
00:17:01,199 --> 00:17:04,490
But I think maybe..
I hope that there's more, there is also

300
00:17:04,490 --> 00:17:07,319
like kind of an artistic side of these too,
where they're also kind of commenting

301
00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:09,019
on the way we're consuming media
right now.

302
00:17:09,019 --> 00:17:11,250
So this one's called
'Next next next', right?

303
00:17:11,250 --> 00:17:13,589
So this is..
and 'next next next' is the way

304
00:17:13,589 --> 00:17:17,189
probably this piece will be consumed
in 99% of the time, right?

305
00:17:17,189 --> 00:17:19,319
For the 10 people that see this
hanging on a wall,

306
00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:22,388
the rest are just gonna 'next'
through this on instagram, right?

307
00:17:22,388 --> 00:17:26,880
And so it's meant to sort of,
kind of archive, like, the bug in amber

308
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,250
a little bit, these moments that
we're going through right now,

309
00:17:29,250 --> 00:17:31,179
where we're touching pixels
for the first time,

310
00:17:31,179 --> 00:17:36,059
and these things that kind of feel,
sort of high-tech in a sense,

311
00:17:36,059 --> 00:17:38,240
but quickly are feeling very blunt,
like to me this feels like

312
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,830
a very blunt way to consume media,
a very blunt way to have a relationship

313
00:17:41,830 --> 00:17:43,860
with art.

314
00:17:43,860 --> 00:17:48,340
So hopefully it's commenting
on that a bit too.

315
00:17:48,340 --> 00:17:49,860
This is a related piece from the series.

316
00:17:49,860 --> 00:17:52,470
This is.. this piece is called 'Level Cleared'.

317
00:17:52,470 --> 00:17:56,029
This is me playing Angry Birds
from start to finish.

318
00:17:56,029 --> 00:17:57,360
*Laughing* And so..
*Applause*

319
00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:07,470
So the grid starts in the upper left corner
with level 1-1.

320
00:18:07,470 --> 00:18:11,389
Whoever else has a Angry.. or had
at one point an Angry Birds addiction,

321
00:18:11,389 --> 00:18:12,639
you know the level well.

322
00:18:12,639 --> 00:18:13,980
And then I just played straight through.

323
00:18:13,980 --> 00:18:17,299
It takes me full-time Angry Birds play,
like 8-10 hours a day for 3 days

324
00:18:17,299 --> 00:18:18,350
to get through.

325
00:18:18,350 --> 00:18:20,740
And they keep adding levels,
so when I have to remake the piece now

326
00:18:20,740 --> 00:18:23,330
it's even more of a nightmare.

327
00:18:23,330 --> 00:18:24,440
And it just marches straight through.

328
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:29,320
I have one sheet per level..
per attempted level,

329
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,370
and so again, this piece, like,
I've been thinking a lot about

330
00:18:31,370 --> 00:18:35,370
how the art.. how art and the internet
relate in terms of the consumption of art

331
00:18:35,370 --> 00:18:38,630
and how time is affected with
our consumption of art.

332
00:18:38,630 --> 00:18:42,769
And I was, actually, I was thinking about
conversations we had earlier

333
00:18:42,769 --> 00:18:43,090
on the F.A.T. days

334
00:18:43,090 --> 00:18:46,659
where we were both kind of joking at one point
about how we felt like the internet was

335
00:18:46,659 --> 00:18:50,470
sort of.. we always had to load projects up,
like, if we didn't release something in 2

336
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:50,630
weeks,

337
00:18:50,630 --> 00:18:52,010
it was like we were
dead on the internet, right?

338
00:18:52,010 --> 00:18:54,370
And we felt this kind of like push
from the internet

339
00:18:54,370 --> 00:18:56,730
that we had to keep making and
keep making and keep making.

340
00:18:56,730 --> 00:18:58,880
And there was something interesting about
participating in that culture,

341
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:00,799
but then more and more
I've been thinking about

342
00:19:00,799 --> 00:19:04,230
how can you maybe still contribute
and participate in that kind of consumption

343
00:19:04,230 --> 00:19:05,190
of media,

344
00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:08,330
but then have the same piece
mean something slightly different

345
00:19:08,330 --> 00:19:10,730
for people that are gonna invest
more amounts of time in it, right?

346
00:19:10,730 --> 00:19:15,100
And how pieces, even if people consume it
in a blog post title and have one reaction,

347
00:19:15,100 --> 00:19:17,510
which might be a familiar reaction
like laughter,

348
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:19,730
which I actually really like
from this piece.

349
00:19:19,730 --> 00:19:23,510
I'm trying to embed in these
other kind of readings of the work,

350
00:19:23,510 --> 00:19:26,159
where you come in and you sit
on this bench, right,

351
00:19:26,159 --> 00:19:30,149
and this is maybe my interpretation
of the piece, right,

352
00:19:30,149 --> 00:19:33,620
and you sit in front of these, like
1500 sheets of paper

353
00:19:33,620 --> 00:19:36,380
and after the kind of wave of laughter
leaves you and you realize

354
00:19:36,380 --> 00:19:39,419
like, all the things I could have done
at that time, right?

355
00:19:39,419 --> 00:19:41,940
Like, I coulda learned French,
I coulda lost ten pounds,

356
00:19:41,940 --> 00:19:46,080
I coulda learned how to cook more,
I could've read a whole bunch of books,

357
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,799
and instead I was like just flicking,
like, birds at pigs

358
00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:51,279
over and over and over and over again.

359
00:19:51,279 --> 00:19:53,630
And so it's.. I like both readings.

360
00:19:53,630 --> 00:19:57,659
Like, I like the reading that..
it can be consumed in Instagram quickly.

361
00:19:57,659 --> 00:20:01,100
I like the reading..
I.. if people are able to sit with it

362
00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:05,240
and maybe contemplate these larger issues
I like it as well, but I think

363
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:08,750
in art-making right now there is this..
I'm trying to make work that isn't

364
00:20:08,750 --> 00:20:12,059
just addressing the internet's drive
to have things faster and quicker

365
00:20:12,059 --> 00:20:13,720
and in blogpost titles, right?

366
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:19,039
'Cause I felt it sort of affected
the art I was making.

367
00:20:19,039 --> 00:20:21,860
And also the internet has like
fundamentally changed, right,

368
00:20:21,860 --> 00:20:26,809
like I think.. I think the times
that we were at IBM and

369
00:20:26,809 --> 00:20:29,299
we were doing F.A.T. Lab
and the times that we were

370
00:20:29,299 --> 00:20:31,919
sort of wrestling with that work -
things really changed, like,

371
00:20:31,919 --> 00:20:32,559
we all felt it.

372
00:20:32,559 --> 00:20:34,990
And in this crowd I don't
really have to talk about it, right?

373
00:20:34,990 --> 00:20:40,259
But for a while, the internet to me
felt like this, and shame on me, you know?

374
00:20:40,259 --> 00:20:43,090
But as I've been making work and
the work's been changing,

375
00:20:43,090 --> 00:20:46,730
and my relationship to the internet
has been changing,

376
00:20:46,730 --> 00:20:49,299
and so I'm gonna into some things
that I know you all know,

377
00:20:49,299 --> 00:20:51,649
but this is kind of like my personal take
on it, right?

378
00:20:51,649 --> 00:20:55,029
My.. this is like how I came to think
about the situation that we're in now.

379
00:20:55,029 --> 00:20:57,450
I used to think the internet
was the Big Bang, right?

380
00:20:57,450 --> 00:20:58,539
That was how I was introduced to it.

381
00:20:58,539 --> 00:21:01,049
Like, I thought, holy shit, this is
gonna happen

382
00:21:01,049 --> 00:21:03,120
and it's just gonna keep multiplying,
getting bigger and bigger

383
00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:05,669
and there'll be a server for every interest,
and everybody'll be a publisher,

384
00:21:05,669 --> 00:21:07,730
everyone's gonna be empowered.

385
00:21:07,730 --> 00:21:11,480
And I thought it was this
Big Bang model of what was gonna happen.

386
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,419
And I think more and more that, like,
it's actually the Big Crunch model,

387
00:21:14,419 --> 00:21:16,700
which is when the universe expands
to a maximization point

388
00:21:16,700 --> 00:21:19,049
and then at some point starts
contracting down, right?

389
00:21:19,049 --> 00:21:23,490
And I think, I think that that middle point..
I think that middle point was when

390
00:21:23,490 --> 00:21:24,450
we accepted Gmail.
*Laughter*

391
00:21:24,450 --> 00:21:30,370
You know, I think once we, like,
culturally decided that

392
00:21:30,370 --> 00:21:33,009
someone could read our emails
and advertise us to our inbox,

393
00:21:33,009 --> 00:21:36,029
I really think people at Google
were just like, holy shit, like,

394
00:21:36,029 --> 00:21:38,509
'They bought it.'
Like, from that point on it was just really

395
00:21:38,509 --> 00:21:39,299
over.

396
00:21:39,299 --> 00:21:43,380
And so now it's been of course
condensing into fewer and fewer servers,

397
00:21:43,380 --> 00:21:46,159
and.. anyway, we all know this stuff, right.

398
00:21:46,159 --> 00:21:50,470
And so this kind of like, this condensation
of the internet down to one point

399
00:21:50,470 --> 00:21:52,950
feels like it's happening.

400
00:21:52,950 --> 00:21:55,460
The kind of targeted marketing
that just was annoying at one point

401
00:21:55,460 --> 00:21:59,090
now feels really more sinister, like,
I mean, it was kind of ok

402
00:21:59,090 --> 00:22:00,769
to read our email and
advertise to us,

403
00:22:00,769 --> 00:22:03,399
but then when you start, like,
kind of snitching on us,

404
00:22:03,399 --> 00:22:06,230
that was just.. that was hard for me.

405
00:22:06,230 --> 00:22:09,049
Like, we don't even need to talk about this,
'cause I know it gets addressed all the time

406
00:22:09,049 --> 00:22:09,299
here.

407
00:22:09,299 --> 00:22:13,100
But for me, as someone who is making art
that was engaged in the internet,

408
00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:17,240
and a lot of the inspirations that I was taking
for, from the kind of free culture movement

409
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,740
and free software movement,
engaged with the internet, and like,

410
00:22:20,740 --> 00:22:24,039
the convolution of these 3 things, of like,
monetization of the web,

411
00:22:24,039 --> 00:22:27,000
the centralization of the web,
and then this kind of spying scandal.

412
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,850
They really left me in kind of like staggering
for ways to get back to making art

413
00:22:30,850 --> 00:22:34,630
about an internet that didn't feel
funny to me any more, right, like,

414
00:22:34,630 --> 00:22:36,820
the internet was ..
this is how I felt like.

415
00:22:36,820 --> 00:22:40,330
I felt like the lolcats were just
this Trojan horse, you know,

416
00:22:40,330 --> 00:22:44,340
and, and I.. after all this was sort of happening
I couldn't even see the cats

417
00:22:44,340 --> 00:22:45,090
on the internet any more.

418
00:22:45,090 --> 00:22:48,419
Like, I thought, the internet was
the land of the cats and unicorns,

419
00:22:48,419 --> 00:22:53,159
and now, the fur has kind of been removed
and you see the terminator's shiny skull

420
00:22:53,159 --> 00:22:55,679
and the red beady eye.

421
00:22:55,679 --> 00:22:58,710
And so if.. and just like from a personal
standpoint it got hard

422
00:22:58,710 --> 00:23:03,159
to get interested in making art
in that medium again.

423
00:23:03,159 --> 00:23:06,600
And so, that was like all leading up
to this talk,

424
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,950
which maybe a lot of you
have seen either at transmediale last year,

425
00:23:09,950 --> 00:23:12,960
or here, or, I mean, around the internet.

426
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,190
I thought it was in the internet
for a second there.

427
00:23:15,190 --> 00:23:19,019
This was Peter's talk at transmediale,
where he gets on stage

428
00:23:19,019 --> 00:23:21,200
and he basically says
'We've lost, and it's over.'

429
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:26,519
which is something I know that
we've heard here from Frank and Rop

430
00:23:26,519 --> 00:23:27,549
10 years ago, right.

431
00:23:27,549 --> 00:23:29,350
I know this isn't a new narrative.

432
00:23:29,350 --> 00:23:33,169
But for me, Peter's talk came along
kind of at the right time,

433
00:23:33,169 --> 00:23:37,149
where.. like, the Pirate Bay, for me,
and the work that Piratbyran had been

434
00:23:37,149 --> 00:23:37,669
doing,

435
00:23:37,669 --> 00:23:42,220
has been really one of my main, like,
heroes, one of the main reasons

436
00:23:42,220 --> 00:23:43,379
I started making art.

437
00:23:43,379 --> 00:23:46,779
Like, the Pirate Bay for me is still,
I think, one of the most amazing things made

438
00:23:46,779 --> 00:23:47,519
during my lifetime.

439
00:23:47,519 --> 00:23:51,799
And it was what really turned me,
kind of, from architecture to thinking about

440
00:23:51,799 --> 00:23:53,990
how entertainment and activism
could overlap,

441
00:23:53,990 --> 00:23:55,659
and how people could really
change things

442
00:23:55,659 --> 00:23:59,570
and have kind of powerstructure-altering
things that we could contribute

443
00:23:59,570 --> 00:24:00,559
to culture.

444
00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:03,379
And when you have these kind of
personal heroes get on stage

445
00:24:03,379 --> 00:24:06,019
and tell you that that's over..

446
00:24:06,019 --> 00:24:08,899
When I happy to hear that
I had this kind of moment where I was like,

447
00:24:08,899 --> 00:24:11,649
why am I feeling happy about
hearing that, you know?

448
00:24:11,649 --> 00:24:13,490
And I realized that that was kind
of how I was feeling,

449
00:24:13,490 --> 00:24:18,159
and have somebody else say that..
it felt really.. good's the wrong word,

450
00:24:18,159 --> 00:24:22,299
but it felt.. strangely empowering
to sort of start to admit to myself

451
00:24:22,299 --> 00:24:25,659
that maybe the kind of ship
was sinking, right?

452
00:24:25,659 --> 00:24:30,879
And so, shortly after that we were also having
conversations within the F.A.T. Lab internally,

453
00:24:30,879 --> 00:24:34,279
and, not by unanimous decision
but by majority we decided

454
00:24:34,279 --> 00:24:36,919
that we were gonna shut the doors
at F.A.T. Lab.

455
00:24:36,919 --> 00:24:39,960
And I won't speak for the group,
but my.. my personal thoughts on why

456
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:44,110
we.. they shut down, which maybe
isn't important in the greater sense,

457
00:24:44,110 --> 00:24:47,269
but just, kind of again, like as
a.. kind of my personal take

458
00:24:47,269 --> 00:24:50,960
on how I'm working through this stuff
was like.. I felt like F.A.T. Lab..

459
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,259
like the internet had sort of
outpaced us, like,

460
00:24:53,259 --> 00:24:56,830
that idea of radical entertainment
had a moment when there was

461
00:24:56,830 --> 00:25:00,710
a loophole in the media where
kind of companies and capitalism

462
00:25:00,710 --> 00:25:02,460
hadn't really figured out viral
marketing yet,

463
00:25:02,460 --> 00:25:06,129
and we had this.. this like big opening
where we could really speak to people

464
00:25:06,129 --> 00:25:08,769
on a larger platform because
there weren't whole divisions

465
00:25:08,769 --> 00:25:11,649
at Wieden+Kennedy that were just
trying to do this for the largest companies.

466
00:25:11,649 --> 00:25:15,309
Like, it was.. we figured that out first,
and so we had this kind of weakness

467
00:25:15,309 --> 00:25:16,809
that we could exploit.

468
00:25:16,809 --> 00:25:20,059
But as that changed we kind of failed
as a group, I think, to keep up

469
00:25:20,059 --> 00:25:23,009
with new modes of activism.

470
00:25:23,009 --> 00:25:25,129
And the other thing that I was sort of
feeling was that we were kind of

471
00:25:25,129 --> 00:25:30,190
providing this David and Goliath
narrative to people.

472
00:25:30,190 --> 00:25:33,759
Both within the group, they were
getting closer to sort of Silicon Valley,

473
00:25:33,759 --> 00:25:37,279
and our audience, which I felt like
was getting closer and closer to Silicon Valley,

474
00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:40,159
that like... people that were getting
entrenched more into that way of thinking

475
00:25:40,159 --> 00:25:44,049
were looking and enjoying our content
in a way that sort of felt uncomfortable in

476
00:25:44,049 --> 00:25:45,279
a way.

477
00:25:45,279 --> 00:25:49,500
And it felt like the kind of humorous pranks
that we were pulling was helping them cope,

478
00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:54,350
in a way, with the fact that they were
supporting that system.

479
00:25:54,350 --> 00:25:57,090
And... it kind of felt like we were
the comedian on the Titanic,

480
00:25:57,090 --> 00:25:58,730
like telling jokes as it was sinking.

481
00:25:58,730 --> 00:26:01,279
Or, it felt to me that way.

482
00:26:01,279 --> 00:26:04,860
And so at some point it felt
more powerful to kind of just say

483
00:26:04,860 --> 00:26:08,169
'Goodbye' and maybe put a message
in a bottle and jump off the ship

484
00:26:08,169 --> 00:26:12,389
rather than sit there and keep
bailing out the ship, right?

485
00:26:12,389 --> 00:26:16,080
And so that's where I was
at the beginning of this year.

486
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:17,850
And so the work that I'm gonna show
from this point on,

487
00:26:17,850 --> 00:26:21,789
which I think I still have.. yeah, ok,
25 minutes or so,

488
00:26:21,789 --> 00:26:24,500
is kind of the work I've been doing
to try to get back to that point

489
00:26:24,500 --> 00:26:29,259
that I had when I first saw FETCH
and FTP and kind of understood,

490
00:26:29,259 --> 00:26:31,250
in a very rudimentary way,
how the internet functions,

491
00:26:31,250 --> 00:26:33,279
and what that empowering
moment felt like,

492
00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:35,700
and trying to struggle to get back
to a point where I could make art

493
00:26:35,700 --> 00:26:38,039
that was engaged in the internet again.

494
00:26:38,039 --> 00:26:41,409
And so, one way.. one way I started
that search was to sort of start

495
00:26:41,409 --> 00:26:44,789
from the beginning, and thinking about,
like, what is our cultural conception

496
00:26:44,789 --> 00:26:46,450
of what the internet is,
what it looks like.

497
00:26:46,450 --> 00:26:50,049
And we have generally a kind of
very poor visual metaphor

498
00:26:50,049 --> 00:26:51,159
for what the internet is, right?

499
00:26:51,159 --> 00:26:53,389
So this is just a google image search
for the word 'internet'

500
00:26:53,389 --> 00:26:55,919
which doesn't, to me,
feel very representative

501
00:26:55,919 --> 00:26:58,919
of what the network is
or what it feels like.

502
00:26:58,919 --> 00:27:02,169
And so I started to get more
into thinking about

503
00:27:02,169 --> 00:27:04,970
what it was, like,
it can't just be, you know,

504
00:27:04,970 --> 00:27:08,230
blue-glowing logos in clouds,
it has to be something physical.

505
00:27:08,230 --> 00:27:12,070
And so I started reading Andrew Blum's
book 'Tubes'.

506
00:27:12,070 --> 00:27:15,820
I started reading Neal Stephenson's
'Mother Earth Mother Board',

507
00:27:15,820 --> 00:27:18,809
which, if there is any sort of internet
infrastructure nerds,

508
00:27:18,809 --> 00:27:20,450
is like an amazing primer,

509
00:27:20,450 --> 00:27:23,440
kind of the first maybe seminal texts
about following internet cables

510
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,149
around the globe,
which is kind of understanding

511
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:29,570
what it looks like in these moments
of transition, when it sort of

512
00:27:29,570 --> 00:27:33,499
enters the water and reaches the land.

513
00:27:33,499 --> 00:27:36,440
And one thing that Andrew Blum
talks about in his book is this idea

514
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,629
of these kind of like.. there's no
monuments for this thing that's really

515
00:27:40,629 --> 00:27:42,999
a major part of our sort of time
here on Earth,

516
00:27:42,999 --> 00:27:44,929
and maybe our part of culture.

517
00:27:44,929 --> 00:27:47,070
It seems like there's not
these places that we can kind of

518
00:27:47,070 --> 00:27:49,309
go visit and commune with
in the same way there are other

519
00:27:49,309 --> 00:27:50,179
architectural landmarks.

520
00:27:50,179 --> 00:27:54,490
And so you get these kind of like
lonely manhole covers

521
00:27:54,490 --> 00:27:58,549
on these very desolate beaches
in Nova Scotia.

522
00:27:58,549 --> 00:28:03,230
And so, at the same time that
I was sort of doing that research,

523
00:28:03,230 --> 00:28:07,049
and this is gonna sound like a big
left turn, but I'm gonna pull it back,

524
00:28:07,049 --> 00:28:08,870
at the same time I was doing
that research I was also working

525
00:28:08,870 --> 00:28:12,620
on another project that required
the use of an infra-red camera.

526
00:28:12,620 --> 00:28:15,259
And so I was kind of spending my time
doing this research and looking

527
00:28:15,259 --> 00:28:17,809
around the internet trying to find
really cheap infra-red cameras,

528
00:28:17,809 --> 00:28:20,090
'cause of course I'm an artist
and I'm broke,

529
00:28:20,090 --> 00:28:24,289
and I kept finding myself on these
websites of people selling technology

530
00:28:24,289 --> 00:28:27,669
to ghost hunters, which is a community
that I had no interactions with,

531
00:28:27,669 --> 00:28:32,620
no experience of, but they just had
really good cheap infra-red cameras.

532
00:28:32,620 --> 00:28:34,289
*laughter*

533
00:28:34,289 --> 00:28:37,220
And I was like, I was sitting there
in these online ghost hunting shops,

534
00:28:37,220 --> 00:28:38,269
and they were amazing.

535
00:28:38,269 --> 00:28:41,409
Like, I felt myself having one of those
moments with technology,

536
00:28:41,409 --> 00:28:44,710
where.. that I hadn't felt in a long time,
it was just like a kid.

537
00:28:44,710 --> 00:28:47,499
Like, looking at this technology,
I mean, like 'What the fuck is this,

538
00:28:47,499 --> 00:28:50,749
like, why, I don't understand!'
and they..

539
00:28:50,749 --> 00:28:53,649
But then I started to get interested in it
more on

540
00:28:53,649 --> 00:28:55,570
kind of like a metaphorical or conceptual
level,

541
00:28:55,570 --> 00:28:58,340
'cause what the ghost hunter..
ghost hunting community was..

542
00:28:58,340 --> 00:29:01,899
is kind of interested in doing is, they're..
they talk about disembodied human energy

543
00:29:01,899 --> 00:29:02,159
a lot,

544
00:29:02,159 --> 00:29:06,399
and so they're making tech to try to
visualize disembodied human energy.

545
00:29:06,399 --> 00:29:09,100
And in a sense this felt like what I was
trying to do with a lot of the work

546
00:29:09,100 --> 00:29:12,639
that I was doing, which was trying
to take all this kind of invisible momentum

547
00:29:12,639 --> 00:29:15,340
that's getting stored in servers and
going through the fibre-optic cables

548
00:29:15,340 --> 00:29:19,200
and thinking about ways to kind of visualize
that work to come to some understanding

549
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:19,799
of it.

550
00:29:19,799 --> 00:29:23,299
And the ghost hunting community had this
amazing tech to do that with.

551
00:29:23,299 --> 00:29:26,669
And so then I started to go really deep
down this ghost hunting rabbit hole,

552
00:29:26,669 --> 00:29:30,480
which was another fun way to spend
three months on the internet. *laughing*

553
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,549
I'll show just one clip.. 'cause I'd
never seen any of this,

554
00:29:34,549 --> 00:29:36,370
so people that are familiar with
these communities, this is

555
00:29:36,370 --> 00:29:39,179
maybe old hat, but to me this
was like just fascinating.

556
00:29:39,179 --> 00:29:42,399
So this is.. they also come from where
I come from, so this is like,

557
00:29:42,399 --> 00:29:46,139
the Mid-West Spirit Organisation,
like they're all from the midwest

558
00:29:46,139 --> 00:29:46,720
in the US, right?

559
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,139
'Cause it's super boring there and
so apparently like.. *laughing*

560
00:29:50,139 --> 00:29:53,480
you either do drugs or you
hunt for ghosts, and.. *laughing*

561
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,070
so this is one from the Mid-West
Spirit Group, and this is one of

562
00:29:56,070 --> 00:29:57,529
many many clips on youtube.

563
00:29:57,529 --> 00:30:01,539
So this is a video shot in full-spectrum
camera, which is just a camera

564
00:30:01,539 --> 00:30:04,419
that has been modified you see
a little bit more of the ultra-violet spectrum

565
00:30:04,419 --> 00:30:07,299
and a little bit more of the infrared
spectrum, and the audio you're gonna hear

566
00:30:07,299 --> 00:30:11,159
is from what they call a spirit box,
which is essentially a hacked radio,

567
00:30:11,159 --> 00:30:11,950
that just keeps scanning,

568
00:30:11,950 --> 00:30:14,129
and I'll talk more about that in a bit.

569
00:30:14,129 --> 00:30:21,860
Guy: This is a device that you guys
can come forward any spirits and speak with

570
00:30:21,860 --> 00:30:22,350
me. (??)

571
00:30:22,350 --> 00:30:49,070
Ah, so, if you have a message, please
come forward and speak to me into this device.

572
00:30:49,070 --> 00:30:49,570
*noise*
Female voice: Hi.
Guy: Hi, tell me your name.
*noise*
*noise**boop*
*noiseboopnoise*

573
00:30:49,570 --> 00:30:52,009
Evan: Ok, I'll let you do your own
youtube searching for that.

574
00:30:52,009 --> 00:30:55,309
But even that idea, like, if you have
a message for me, come speak into this device,

575
00:30:55,309 --> 00:30:57,220
like, I wanna use that for like the title
of

576
00:30:57,220 --> 00:30:58,869
my next solo show, to me it's like sooo...

577
00:30:58,869 --> 00:31:01,509
there is like something happening there
that seems like a statement that

578
00:31:01,509 --> 00:31:03,440
is greater than the ghost hunting
community.

579
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,119
And also their relationship with technology
kind of feels very.. I mean it's strange to

580
00:31:07,119 --> 00:31:07,419
say this

581
00:31:07,419 --> 00:31:13,480
'cause for me as a sort of non-believer
in ghosts I find the technology maybe

582
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,659
inherently flawed, but I.. the approach
seems so honest to me in a way.

583
00:31:17,659 --> 00:31:22,169
Like they're really setting out to make tools
in a very honest way, very little commercial

584
00:31:22,169 --> 00:31:22,259
interest,

585
00:31:22,259 --> 00:31:25,590
to try to satisfy this niche community.

586
00:31:25,590 --> 00:31:27,580
So anyway, this is like a... it was really
getting

587
00:31:27,580 --> 00:31:29,509
back to sort of, like, DIY culture

588
00:31:29,509 --> 00:31:33,570
of people making technology
for their own needs.

589
00:31:33,570 --> 00:31:36,059
And it's a relatively self-aware community
too,

590
00:31:36,059 --> 00:31:37,309
like they talk about this idea

591
00:31:37,309 --> 00:31:40,129
of matrixing a lot, which is the same as
apophenia, right.

592
00:31:40,129 --> 00:31:45,340
It's this idea that our brains are kind of
hardwired to find patterns in randomness.

593
00:31:45,340 --> 00:31:48,919
Like, they're aware of this.
And so scepticism is like a big badge,

594
00:31:48,919 --> 00:31:53,049
that people, if you wanna rise the ranks
in the paranormal community,

595
00:31:53,049 --> 00:31:57,529
you have to kind of debunk more
ghosts than you find, right?

596
00:31:57,529 --> 00:31:59,149
And this to me is something that's
really interesting too,

597
00:31:59,149 --> 00:32:02,320
'cause I think that they might actually
be more critical of the investigations

598
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,340
they're doing than we're doing, right?

599
00:32:04,340 --> 00:32:08,700
And so then when we look and see
that we've got 5807 friend requests

600
00:32:08,700 --> 00:32:12,190
it feels like this might be a matrixing
that we're doing with our own technology,

601
00:32:12,190 --> 00:32:14,139
with social media rather than
the ghost hunting.

602
00:32:14,139 --> 00:32:17,570
Or whether.. like, the kind of like popular
idea

603
00:32:17,570 --> 00:32:19,389
that technology can solve our problems,

604
00:32:19,389 --> 00:32:22,629
that we can explain all these complicated
problems in 13 minutes or less,

605
00:32:22,629 --> 00:32:26,629
and 120 characters or less, it seems
like maybe our relationship technology

606
00:32:26,629 --> 00:32:31,639
maybe isn't any more flawed than
their relationship with technology.

607
00:32:31,639 --> 00:32:37,879
And so I decided to sort of set out
on my own kind of... pilgrimage

608
00:32:37,879 --> 00:32:38,029
to the internet, right?

609
00:32:38,029 --> 00:32:40,580
In the same way the ghost hunters..
this isn't something that ghost hunters do

610
00:32:40,580 --> 00:32:42,769
kind of around the kitchen table
over coffee, right,

611
00:32:42,769 --> 00:32:46,899
they go to what they call 'areas of
activity', which are actually not graveyards,

612
00:32:46,899 --> 00:32:47,149
right.

613
00:32:47,149 --> 00:32:51,460
This would be an area of inactivity.
It's more, like, abandoned hospitals,

614
00:32:51,460 --> 00:32:55,470
or insane asylums, like areas where
activity happened.

615
00:32:55,470 --> 00:32:58,749
And so the.. because I wasn't looking
for ghosts, I'm looking for more

616
00:32:58,749 --> 00:33:04,309
of this, like, reforged relationship
with a.. an innocence lost of the internet.

617
00:33:04,309 --> 00:33:07,289
The area that I decided to go to,
which is talked about a lot by

618
00:33:07,289 --> 00:33:12,119
Stephenson's 'Mother Earth Mother Board'
article, is this Porthcurno beach,

619
00:33:12,119 --> 00:33:15,330
which is.. if you're in the UK and you
just keep driving west as far as you can

620
00:33:15,330 --> 00:33:19,899
until.. literally when the land ends
there's a hotel called Land's End,

621
00:33:19,899 --> 00:33:25,450
and when you're there, you're
within, like, 3 km of really cool stuff.

622
00:33:25,450 --> 00:33:31,669
So you're in.. you're where 15% of the global
internet flows through fibre-optic cables.

623
00:33:31,669 --> 00:33:34,919
It's historically where the pirate ships
would hide in the coves.

624
00:33:34,919 --> 00:33:38,350
2000 BC it was where all the standing-stone
circles..

625
00:33:38,350 --> 00:33:41,119
there's all these standing stones in this
area.

626
00:33:41,119 --> 00:33:44,919
It's where in 1870 the first telegraph came
out

627
00:33:44,919 --> 00:33:46,440
of the ocean, the exact same beach

628
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,379
that the fibre-optic cables are at now.

629
00:33:48,379 --> 00:33:53,480
2 km up the beach is where Marconi
was building these amazing structures

630
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,179
to send the first wireless transmissions
over the Atlantic,

631
00:33:56,179 --> 00:34:01,360
all within this super-remote area
way out at the west of the UK.

632
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:06,249
And so, I made my map and I had
my little destinations I wanted to go to,

633
00:34:06,249 --> 00:34:10,800
I rented a car, I got my gear.
I had a mix of, like, ghost-hunting gear

634
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,310
that I bought and some that I'd made,
and some just other devices that I'd thought

635
00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:17,060
might come in handy.

636
00:34:17,060 --> 00:34:20,550
And I started by doing something that
Neal Stephenson suggested to do

637
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:23,500
if you're hunting for the internet,
which is to follow the manholes.

638
00:34:23,500 --> 00:34:26,150
And so I started just following
the manholes.

639
00:34:26,150 --> 00:34:29,730
And.. it really.. it's.. so when you're on
these like surfer beaches,

640
00:34:29,730 --> 00:34:33,420
where nobody is and you see
like 30 manholes in the parking lot

641
00:34:33,420 --> 00:34:35,949
that's meant just to get to the beach
to go surfing,

642
00:34:35,949 --> 00:34:38,719
you're probably getting close.

643
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,170
On these little farmroads that
were just out in the middle of nowhere

644
00:34:41,170 --> 00:34:45,210
with just sheep kind of grazing,
every once in a while there'd be a driveway

645
00:34:45,210 --> 00:34:49,290
that had these really large sort of
access covers,

646
00:34:49,290 --> 00:34:52,460
and when you looked, they're designed
to look like these typical british country

647
00:34:52,460 --> 00:34:53,000
houses,

648
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,880
but on closer inspection you can see
that there's all these extra security measures

649
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:02,690
and blacked-out windows,
and so this is a internet landing location.

650
00:35:02,690 --> 00:35:06,810
Farms that have way more airconditioning
than they need for the .. *laughing* .. sheep.

651
00:35:06,810 --> 00:35:09,860
That's probably a good sign
you're getting close.

652
00:35:09,860 --> 00:35:15,130
But I wasn't.. I wasn't really interested
in.. as a sort of journalistic endeavour,

653
00:35:15,130 --> 00:35:18,320
like, it was really more.. I wanted to
sort of step away from the computer

654
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,630
for a moment,
I wanted to get out into nature

655
00:35:21,630 --> 00:35:24,600
and I wanted to sort of just see
what it felt like to stand on top of that

656
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:24,760
cable,

657
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,470
you know, what would it feel like to stand
on top of this cable where 25% of the traffic

658
00:35:28,470 --> 00:35:30,720
was flowing through.

659
00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:34,970
And so I started taking this series of
landscapes, like just landscape photography.

660
00:35:34,970 --> 00:35:39,300
Sometimes.. sometimes the cable was
within the frame.

661
00:35:39,300 --> 00:35:42,170
When I took this photo I actually didn't know
exactly what I was shooting,

662
00:35:42,170 --> 00:35:46,040
but in this frame is both the cable and
the GCHQ-tapped cable,

663
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:50,490
which you can kind of see the dishes
up there in the background.

664
00:35:50,490 --> 00:35:55,570
But it's.. it was less for me about, like,
those actual recording the cables, the dishes.

665
00:35:55,570 --> 00:35:58,880
It was more about something that I read about
in Andrew Blum's book,

666
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,830
was there's this really interesting phenomena
that happens when you go hunting for the internet,

667
00:36:02,830 --> 00:36:05,090
which is like you end up in these super-remote
locations,

668
00:36:05,090 --> 00:36:08,330
like you're trying to go have this research
and

669
00:36:08,330 --> 00:36:09,110
experience with telecommunications,

670
00:36:09,110 --> 00:36:12,640
but you end up like on these really
lonely beaches which is by design

671
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,930
'cause they don't want cables and nets
around them.

672
00:36:15,930 --> 00:36:19,460
Many times you don't have 3G or cellphone
service, and it's kind of just you and like,

673
00:36:19,460 --> 00:36:19,610
you know,

674
00:36:19,610 --> 00:36:22,760
this lonely beach.
It's.. this.. sort of interesting,

675
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:27,620
for me it was really beautiful, like,
It really felt.. it felt good.

676
00:36:27,620 --> 00:36:30,470
So.. this is something I've been doing
more and more lately, and I just..

677
00:36:30,470 --> 00:36:33,850
I go to these places as a way,
not to necessarily document

678
00:36:33,850 --> 00:36:36,750
physical artifacts of the internet
but more just putting myself

679
00:36:36,750 --> 00:36:41,330
in sort of a place where I wanna
make art about the internet.

680
00:36:41,330 --> 00:36:44,090
And the internet manifests itself
in different ways in different countries.

681
00:36:44,090 --> 00:36:48,850
In the UK, it's just these wooden signs,
this is.. it's just a yellow wooden sign

682
00:36:48,850 --> 00:36:52,600
that says 'telephone cable' on it,
which is like the most beautiful

683
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:57,410
kind of, like, anticlimactic understated
monument you could have, right?

684
00:36:57,410 --> 00:37:02,370
So this is one of the biggest global
internet connection points in the world

685
00:37:02,370 --> 00:37:05,150
and it's just this little tiny sign, you know?

686
00:37:05,150 --> 00:37:08,670
And to me that was really perfect
in a way, like, I was.. I was really..

687
00:37:08,670 --> 00:37:11,100
it felt good that it was that, and
that something else.

688
00:37:11,100 --> 00:37:15,560
And.. so at the same time I was taking that
photography, I was also taking readings

689
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,440
with this series of ghost-hunting devices.

690
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,060
This is probably my favourite one,
this is called the Ovilus 3.

691
00:37:22,060 --> 00:37:25,560
This is by a company called 'Digital Dowsing',
which is a really great name for

692
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:31,550
a ghost-hunting tech company,
made by Bill Chappell.

693
00:37:31,550 --> 00:37:35,300
And so the Ovilus 3 has this
kind of like old.. it's called visual draw

694
00:37:35,300 --> 00:37:36,790
mode.

695
00:37:36,790 --> 00:37:40,900
And based on kind of EMF and temperature
readings, it has this drawing system,

696
00:37:40,900 --> 00:37:42,560
that it spits out.

697
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,020
And so at every place that I was taking
a photograph I was also taking this reading

698
00:37:46,020 --> 00:37:48,860
with this ghost-hunting device.

699
00:37:48,860 --> 00:37:53,150
And so, this manifested in different ways.
When I showed in the gallery one way was

700
00:37:53,150 --> 00:37:58,730
in this series of essentially paired landscape
photography where on the top is just a photograph

701
00:37:58,730 --> 00:38:01,790
from these various places and then on the
bottom

702
00:38:01,790 --> 00:38:03,970
sort of laser-etched into the surface of the
print

703
00:38:03,970 --> 00:38:07,490
are these readouts from the ghost-hunting
device.

704
00:38:07,490 --> 00:38:10,510
Which is kind of.. even.. even if you didn't
know

705
00:38:10,510 --> 00:38:12,170
that came to the piece and didn't know the
background

706
00:38:12,170 --> 00:38:16,110
there's meant to be this kind of play between
analogue and digital and this play between

707
00:38:16,110 --> 00:38:21,880
kind of the spiritual and the real,
and when you view these prints,

708
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:23,960
you kind of have the same interaction with
the print

709
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:25,640
that I was having when I was documenting them,

710
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,150
which was you.. you had this kind of natural
position when you're kind of viewing

711
00:38:29,150 --> 00:38:29,910
the horizon line,

712
00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:31,330
and then when we kind of check our phones,
right,

713
00:38:31,330 --> 00:38:33,140
and it's kind of like this all day long.

714
00:38:33,140 --> 00:38:35,030
And so the pieces are meant to have that as
well,

715
00:38:35,030 --> 00:38:37,040
where you.. you kind of look at the horizon
line

716
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,950
on the photo and then you kind of bend down
to look at the little digital read-out.

717
00:38:40,950 --> 00:38:46,350
So this was.. this was one of the series from
an exhibition I did in London last year.

718
00:38:46,350 --> 00:38:52,720
6 months ago - no, 3 months ago
I got an invitation to come to New Zealand

719
00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:58,090
which is a place that was on my kind of like
bucket list for internet exploratory research

720
00:38:58,090 --> 00:38:58,560
purposes,

721
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,170
because New Zealand has this.. this.. they
have

722
00:39:01,170 --> 00:39:02,970
more than 2 cables, but there is 1 cable

723
00:39:02,970 --> 00:39:06,280
called the Southern Cross Network,
which is essentially its main connection

724
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,510
to the globe, and it comes in
on the West Coast and then

725
00:39:09,510 --> 00:39:15,490
crosses, like, I don't... like 30 km maybe,
and then exits on the right.

726
00:39:15,490 --> 00:39:18,240
So it comes over from Australia,
goes underground for a very short

727
00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:22,270
amount of time, then bounces off
for essentially California.

728
00:39:22,270 --> 00:39:28,120
And that's its main connection
to the world, these 2 very actually unguarded

729
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,500
connection points.
I.. maybe in the Q&A I can talk about more..

730
00:39:31,500 --> 00:39:31,960
about that.

731
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:36,760
But basically, on this trip I got..
I mean I got there and they were doing

732
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:37,210
construction work

733
00:39:37,210 --> 00:39:41,510
and the cable was just really there, like,
it was dug up and in a puddle

734
00:39:41,510 --> 00:39:43,790
and just sitting there next to this military
compound

735
00:39:43,790 --> 00:39:45,750
with like this military airstrip

736
00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:48,040
with like planes taking off.

737
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,100
And I was there for 2 hours with a ghost-hunting
device just kind of touching the cable

738
00:39:51,100 --> 00:39:54,960
and nobody said anything.
It was amazing. *laughing*

739
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,770
And.. prior to this trip though I was doing
more kind of research to try and understand

740
00:39:58,770 --> 00:40:03,210
what the internet really really was,
and.. there's a lot of people in the room

741
00:40:03,210 --> 00:40:06,510
who are more, who have more technical
knowledge than I do, so if I'm..

742
00:40:06,510 --> 00:40:10,050
if I'm misquoting things please tell me
afterwards so I can update this.

743
00:40:10,050 --> 00:40:13,670
But my.. my current understanding is that
what's going through the fibre-optic

744
00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:20,550
is essentially infrared.. infrared laser light
that's being modulated at different frequencies

745
00:40:20,550 --> 00:40:25,350
that kind of centre around
this 1550 nm mark, right.

746
00:40:25,350 --> 00:40:34,010
And so give or take a few nm, the internet
happens generally in this near-infrared spectrum.

747
00:40:34,010 --> 00:40:40,470
Which is interesting to me as kind of an artmaker,
because most of our digital devices can sense

748
00:40:40,470 --> 00:40:45,320
in that near-infrared spectrum, in that same
1550 nm range.

749
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,210
So most.. most digital cameras you can open
up

750
00:40:48,210 --> 00:40:50,170
and .. if you go all the way down to the CCD

751
00:40:50,170 --> 00:40:54,110
you can take off the infrared-blocking chip
and you get left with a camera that senses

752
00:40:54,110 --> 00:40:55,930
that light, and you can put another lens
on top

753
00:40:55,930 --> 00:40:58,140
that blocks everything but the infrared light,

754
00:40:58,140 --> 00:40:59,730
and then you're left with a device that's
kind of

755
00:40:59,730 --> 00:41:01,390
in my head anyway,

756
00:41:01,390 --> 00:41:06,720
sensing the world in the same sort of spectrum
that's going through the fibre-optic cable.

757
00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:10,180
So these tutorials are. have.. this presentation
I'm gonna have a link to at the end,

758
00:41:10,180 --> 00:41:14,450
so the links are here but this is from a website
called Life Pixel which has really amazing

759
00:41:14,450 --> 00:41:19,370
like screw-by-screw tutorials for how to do
this with most consumer and like prosumer

760
00:41:19,370 --> 00:41:21,870
digital cameras.

761
00:41:21,870 --> 00:41:24,710
And so then I started shooting these..
these are photographs from

762
00:41:25,230 --> 00:41:32,590
this is from the West Coast of New Zealand,
shot with this modified Lumix GF1 camera.

763
00:41:32,590 --> 00:41:36,400
And so it started like.. I had this feeling
where

764
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,670
the visuals that these cameras were giving,

765
00:41:38,670 --> 00:41:42,040
like.. in.. there's like a technical connection
to the internet, but for me there was also

766
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:46,410
sort of a visual connection where
the photos had the sort of feeling

767
00:41:46,410 --> 00:41:49,450
that I was having, they were sort of these
dark strange glimpses of the internet,

768
00:41:49,450 --> 00:41:54,060
that wasn't Nyan cats and unicorns, right,
it was this kind of, like, darker stranger

769
00:41:54,060 --> 00:41:54,510
view

770
00:41:54,510 --> 00:41:57,910
of what the internet landscape looked like,
and the more I was taking photos

771
00:41:57,910 --> 00:42:02,040
the sort of less and less interested I got
in actually shooting a cable

772
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,780
and the more and more interested I got
in just what these landscapes looked like.

773
00:42:05,780 --> 00:42:10,060
And so in this example you can kind of see
the dirt that's kind of slowly growing over

774
00:42:10,060 --> 00:42:15,700
from where the trench was dug,
or in this one.. from this distance

775
00:42:15,700 --> 00:42:18,230
you can't see anything.
There's a small moment where like

776
00:42:18,230 --> 00:42:21,030
an old coaxial cable kind of
comes out of that cliff.

777
00:42:21,030 --> 00:42:24,810
But for me it's more about really
thinking about like an old-school artform,

778
00:42:24,810 --> 00:42:26,810
of like the landscape, and trying to think
about

779
00:42:26,810 --> 00:42:29,400
how I can make these landscape images

780
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:33,400
that are sort of reflective both of the
physical landscape and of our kind of like

781
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,690
network landscape and cultural landscape.

782
00:42:35,690 --> 00:42:39,480
So these are just some of the kind of images
I was taking on this New Zealand trip.

783
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:43,240
And yeah, again, sometimes there is like
no visual evidence,

784
00:42:43,240 --> 00:42:48,160
sometimes it's just.. just a tree that happens
to be growing on top of the internet.

785
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:50,340
And so I'm still.. this is stuff I'm still
going

786
00:42:50,340 --> 00:42:51,840
through at the moment.

787
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,820
Now I'm kinda drifting into
works in progress,

788
00:42:54,820 --> 00:43:00,450
but where I'm thinking this is going
in one way is a series of new websites

789
00:43:00,450 --> 00:43:05,110
that I'm gonna be making that
are really boring.

790
00:43:05,110 --> 00:43:07,370
I think there's like a really big
market in boring in the arts

791
00:43:07,370 --> 00:43:08,140
that's coming up.

792
00:43:08,140 --> 00:43:10,500
Like I think we've had enough
of this like really quick stuff,

793
00:43:10,500 --> 00:43:13,780
so now I'm gonna take it back,
and so I'm making pieces that are..

794
00:43:13,780 --> 00:43:16,170
I had these experiences..
so these are tripod shots.

795
00:43:16,170 --> 00:43:19,170
I'm shooting usually like 10-15
minute tripod shots at these

796
00:43:19,170 --> 00:43:24,100
different locations, and...
so these are really quiet moments,

797
00:43:24,100 --> 00:43:28,390
essentially just video streaming
into a browser,

798
00:43:28,390 --> 00:43:31,870
and part of the idea is like giving..
forcing people to have the experience

799
00:43:31,870 --> 00:43:35,240
that I was having, so it's..
I would find myself in these amazing locations

800
00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:38,400
and sometimes there'd even be like
whales breaching in the background

801
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,750
and like 7 minutes into the shot
I'd catch myself, like, you know,

802
00:43:41,750 --> 00:43:45,770
bending down to the phone again,
and like, even in this like amazing environment

803
00:43:45,770 --> 00:43:49,190
like I was having a hard time
breaking out of that really like rapid-phased

804
00:43:49,190 --> 00:43:52,440
sort of click-bait mentality that I'm starting
to fall into as well,

805
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,590
and so I want these websites to be
super super boring,

806
00:43:55,590 --> 00:43:59,520
like, more contemplative, more
on the timeline of what viewing nature is

807
00:43:59,520 --> 00:43:59,570
like

808
00:43:59,570 --> 00:44:02,760
rather than what viewing the web is like.

809
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,290
So this is.. this is the triangular sign here
is

810
00:44:05,290 --> 00:44:07,610
what the cable signs look like in New Zealand,

811
00:44:07,610 --> 00:44:11,230
which is, if there's any copy-me fans, like,
when I got out there and found

812
00:44:11,230 --> 00:44:13,530
that there's this like beautiful triangle,
like, standing over the internet,

813
00:44:13,530 --> 00:44:15,650
was like an amazing moment for me.

814
00:44:15,650 --> 00:44:20,000
But the.. so these websites are gonna be
different websites.. each website will

815
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:26,240
just have one video flowing through it,
slow, infrared video shots with this sort

816
00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:27,140
of audio

817
00:44:27,140 --> 00:44:32,410
in the background. The audio is made
from my own ghost-hunting tech,

818
00:44:32,410 --> 00:44:34,610
which I'll be releasing when I get finished
with all the stuff.

819
00:44:34,610 --> 00:44:36,790
So this is my own version of the
spirit box,

820
00:44:36,790 --> 00:44:39,280
where, instead of just scanning through
the radio, I have it hooked up

821
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,700
to a pulse sensor,
so it's skipping through the radio stations

822
00:44:42,700 --> 00:44:43,760
based on my heart beat.

823
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:47,260
So every time my pulse goes
it switches radio stations.

824
00:44:47,260 --> 00:44:52,140
And.. so the audio is like.. yah, it looked..
I looked rather strange like just kind of

825
00:44:52,140 --> 00:44:52,410
sitting there

826
00:44:52,410 --> 00:44:54,930
trying to commune with the internet, like,
hooked put to this heart monitor

827
00:44:54,930 --> 00:44:57,090
and this infrared camera.

828
00:44:57,090 --> 00:44:59,580
But the pieces are sort of meant to
kind of hopefully give

829
00:44:59,580 --> 00:45:02,150
some of those feelings I was having
when I was there.

830
00:45:02,150 --> 00:45:07,420
And the other idea is that these videos
are all gonna be located in servers

831
00:45:07,420 --> 00:45:10,660
that are as close as possible to where
I shot them, so

832
00:45:10,660 --> 00:45:13,990
I'm actually thinking of them less as websites
as kind of like network-specific videos.

833
00:45:13,990 --> 00:45:18,980
And so, in the New Zealand example,
I have server space in New Zealand now,

834
00:45:18,980 --> 00:45:22,850
where these videos are hosted,
so that when you view the video,

835
00:45:22,850 --> 00:45:26,940
it loads into the browser and it's
streaming.. you know, chances are,

836
00:45:26,940 --> 00:45:29,730
you have like kind of like a 50-50 chance
depending on what country you are in,

837
00:45:29,730 --> 00:45:34,110
that the video, as it's being converted into
the same spectrum that it's shot in,

838
00:45:34,110 --> 00:45:39,450
is also streaming kind of like just underneath
the frame there.

839
00:45:39,450 --> 00:45:42,160
And so even though you can't kind of
witness this visually, the idea is like

840
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,410
trying to.. kind of like I was doing with
the

841
00:45:45,410 --> 00:45:47,240
wikipedia series.. like trying to come up

842
00:45:47,240 --> 00:45:50,440
with not just a piece that's kind of
a visual aesthetic of the internet,

843
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:54,540
but something that's really kind of about
an experience of the network.

844
00:45:54,540 --> 00:45:57,310
And then the last sort of thing
I'm playing with is the..

845
00:45:57,310 --> 00:46:01,610
they're gonna be all hosted at these URLs,
that when you copy and paste the URL

846
00:46:01,610 --> 00:46:07,550
into a mapping application, the URL is
actually a GPS coordinate,

847
00:46:07,550 --> 00:46:11,720
so if you paste the URL into Google Maps,
it'll take you to the exact location

848
00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:12,940
where the camera was housed (?).

849
00:46:12,940 --> 00:46:16,500
And so, in Google Earth you can
kind of see the triangular sign and the tree

850
00:46:16,500 --> 00:46:22,480
that is the same sign and tree
from the image.

851
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,920
And so, I'm kind of playing with the idea
of the URL as being both

852
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:32,710
an address on the globe and the network,
and trying to tie again together these 2 things.

853
00:46:32,710 --> 00:46:37,230
And part of this for me is again, like,
without being too nostalgic for the internet

854
00:46:37,230 --> 00:46:37,900
of old,

855
00:46:37,900 --> 00:46:43,470
allow the influences that I'm drawing from,
from the kind of earlier net art scene

856
00:46:43,470 --> 00:46:49,150
was characterized with this kind of classic
net art diagram, where.. the art happens here,

857
00:46:49,150 --> 00:46:49,360
right,

858
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:53,700
like it's not.. there was this big push
in the earlier net art wave that wasn't about

859
00:46:53,700 --> 00:46:58,690
having kind of imagery that was sort of
quasi-antithetic(?) of the internet

860
00:46:58,690 --> 00:47:01,830
coming on tumbler and being printed
in 3D printing into objects (?)

861
00:47:01,830 --> 00:47:03,730
and showing up in a gallery,
but it was really thinking

862
00:47:03,730 --> 00:47:07,470
more fundamentally about
the internet as a platform and a vehicle

863
00:47:07,470 --> 00:47:13,460
for viewing art and art that can only
happen within that medium.

864
00:47:13,460 --> 00:47:16,640
And so I'm kind of trying to take
that idea that's an old one,

865
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,950
and overlay that diagram on top
of something that's like one step removed

866
00:47:19,950 --> 00:47:24,280
in terms of the metaphor, and thinking
about art that happens in a physical location

867
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:26,360
and in the network at the same time.

868
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:30,130
I could do one more project or we
could do Q&A,

869
00:47:30,130 --> 00:47:33,560
how much time do we have now,
5 more minutes?

870
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:35,930
Maybe I'll wrap it up there.
Angel: ... 10-15 minutes...

871
00:47:35,930 --> 00:47:38,380
Evan: Ok, ok, I'll do one more project.
Ok.

872
00:47:38,380 --> 00:47:42,790
So that was.. that's going up to like
yah, 3.. this is now 2 months ago..

873
00:47:42,790 --> 00:47:46,430
3 months ago.
I got invited to do a piece in Paraguay

874
00:47:46,430 --> 00:47:50,030
which is not one of the main
internet hubs, globally.

875
00:47:50,030 --> 00:47:53,190
But I decided to kind of wrestle with a
different piece of the infrastructure of the

876
00:47:53,190 --> 00:47:53,270
internet,

877
00:47:53,270 --> 00:47:56,020
which is kind of the surface, right,
the place that we have this

878
00:47:56,020 --> 00:47:58,930
more immediate contact with the network.

879
00:47:58,930 --> 00:48:02,670
And.. 'cause I noticed when we.. when you
film

880
00:48:02,670 --> 00:48:05,420
devices in infrared it has this interesting
scenario

881
00:48:05,420 --> 00:48:10,310
where the visual spectrum is kind of inverted
in a way where.. the LEDs don't really

882
00:48:10,310 --> 00:48:13,790
emit much infrared light at all,
and so the screen, to the viewer,

883
00:48:13,790 --> 00:48:18,510
you see everything, but to the infrared camera
it's almost completely black.

884
00:48:18,510 --> 00:48:21,040
And similarly the kind of infrared lights
that sort of shine from the top

885
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,540
of all of our iPhones at our faces
all the time,

886
00:48:23,540 --> 00:48:26,400
which we can't see with the naked eye,
become more and more apparent

887
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:27,550
when you're shooting with the infrared.

888
00:48:27,550 --> 00:48:32,340
And so, I started.. built this kind of contraption
that I set up in my hotel room

889
00:48:32,340 --> 00:48:35,900
which looked really strange, and then
invited people to come up to the hotel room

890
00:48:35,900 --> 00:48:40,430
and kind of put their device on top of
this camera rig, and then

891
00:48:40,430 --> 00:48:43,550
the invitation was just to waste time,
like, again, trying to get back to this idea

892
00:48:43,550 --> 00:48:46,600
of casual computing, like,
what do you do when you're in line

893
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,820
at the grocery store, waiting at the
doctor's office, like, what's your bag,

894
00:48:49,820 --> 00:48:51,890
is it Angry Birds, is it checking facebook?

895
00:48:51,890 --> 00:48:56,690
And I just said, 'here, waste 5 or 10 minutes'
and I would record them with this

896
00:48:56,690 --> 00:49:01,610
infrared camera and it's kind of..
in a way it's connected

897
00:49:01,610 --> 00:49:03,990
to the paranormal research,
but maybe it's more connected

898
00:49:03,990 --> 00:49:06,150
to the multi-touch series
that has to do with sort of

899
00:49:06,150 --> 00:49:09,690
backgrounding, the digital backgrounding,
the interface design and foreground

900
00:49:09,690 --> 00:49:11,420
in the human movement.

901
00:49:11,420 --> 00:49:15,510
And so, what you get left with is..
you see the way people are kind of moving

902
00:49:15,510 --> 00:49:21,890
over these different devices without seeing
these designs that the..

903
00:49:21,890 --> 00:49:23,530
that Apple and Google are designing for us.

904
00:49:23,530 --> 00:49:24,030
So I'll play just a minute what
that looks like.

905
00:49:24,030 --> 00:49:48,020
*electronic noises like birds and bass*

906
00:49:48,020 --> 00:50:13,670
Evan: A little boring, right?

907
00:50:13,670 --> 00:50:19,920
No, but that piece is meant to be this..
have this kind of..

908
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,240
these things that kind of feel so natural
and we get so into it,

909
00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:24,330
and when you kind of remove
what's actually happening,

910
00:50:24,330 --> 00:50:27,390
it kind of ends up looking and
sounding so alien, right?

911
00:50:27,390 --> 00:50:30,780
The audio is actually just from
a contact mic that's placed in the back,

912
00:50:30,780 --> 00:50:37,400
so it's not.. it's just an analog microphone
picking up the kind of soft fingertaps on

913
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:37,500
the screen.

914
00:50:37,500 --> 00:50:39,540
And so the.. it became just this series of
people

915
00:50:39,540 --> 00:50:41,460
that sort of agreed to meet with me

916
00:50:41,460 --> 00:50:45,680
and give me 5 or 10 minutes of their
computing time, shown in the gallery

917
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:49,900
of this kind of series of again of like
portraits through technology.

918
00:50:49,900 --> 00:50:53,540
It's called 'Dances for Mobile Phones'.
It's meant to be idea

919
00:50:53,540 --> 00:50:55,020
that we're kind of dancing for them.

920
00:50:55,020 --> 00:50:59,620
Anyway, so I'll leave it there.
So this is me, kind of struggling through,

921
00:50:59,620 --> 00:51:03,820
trying again to make work and trying
to find these sort of optimistic paths

922
00:51:03,820 --> 00:51:07,450
through a kind of increasingly dark
internet landscape

923
00:51:07,450 --> 00:51:11,100
and get back to this kind of more
magical moment I first had

924
00:51:11,100 --> 00:51:14,750
when we first kind of understood
what technological empowerment felt like.

925
00:51:14,750 --> 00:51:17,050
So thank you so much for spending
the hour with me,

926
00:51:17,050 --> 00:51:19,810
and if there's any Q&A, I think we have
a couple of minutes now.

927
00:51:19,810 --> 00:51:21,950
Thank you.

928
00:51:21,950 --> 00:51:33,500
*applause*

929
00:51:33,500 --> 00:51:37,080
*applause*

930
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:42,780
Angel: Thank you so much for your
phenomenal talk, Evan,

931
00:51:42,780 --> 00:51:46,220
I think you can tell by the applause that
the people really really liked it.

932
00:51:46,220 --> 00:51:47,770
Evan: Thank you.
Angel: It was really awesome.

933
00:51:47,770 --> 00:51:51,130
Angel: So we have another 5-10 minutes
for questions and answers.

934
00:51:51,130 --> 00:51:54,120
If you ask questions, please move to the
microphones.

935
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:58,780
We have 4 microphones here in the hall.
Do we have any question from the internet?

936
00:51:58,780 --> 00:52:02,890
Internet? No? Alrighty. So we'll start
with this question from over there.

937
00:52:02,890 --> 00:52:09,390
Question: I really liked your term 'disembodied
human energy'. I'm gonna start using that

938
00:52:09,390 --> 00:52:09,850
"DHE".

939
00:52:09,850 --> 00:52:12,580
Evan: It's not my term, but I like it too.

940
00:52:12,580 --> 00:52:17,070
Q: I've been writing about that as well
from the dark side of how the internet

941
00:52:17,070 --> 00:52:23,070
and digital culture is affecting our
behaviours and society, and was

942
00:52:23,070 --> 00:52:28,010
kind of putting that into terms of
disembodying experience.. disembody..

943
00:52:28,010 --> 00:52:35,240
disembodied information, and I'm really
going after that a lot in terms of

944
00:52:35,240 --> 00:52:42,580
analyzing digital culture, and just
wondering what you think we might do

945
00:52:42,580 --> 00:52:48,690
in order to reembody our culture more
and not get so lost in these

946
00:52:48,690 --> 00:52:53,780
technological things that we can do,
but to, like, I just was covering

947
00:52:53,780 --> 00:53:01,440
the failed Paris climate summit,
and I feel like the corporate agenda

948
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:05,810
is liking that we are going more
and more into a disembodied place,

949
00:53:05,810 --> 00:53:10,540
because it can capture our energy more.
So I'd just like to ask you

950
00:53:10,540 --> 00:53:15,440
if you have any ideas, what we can do
to be more reembodying our experiences.

951
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:21,450
Answer: Yah.. no, good question.
I mean, I can only talk about what I'm..

952
00:53:21,450 --> 00:53:27,060
how I'm kind of wrestling with it.
In.. one sort of decision I made as an artist,

953
00:53:27,060 --> 00:53:29,910
kind of, is like I feel like I make better
work when I'm optimistic

954
00:53:29,910 --> 00:53:33,370
rather than pessimistic.
Like, I think, anyone who suffered

955
00:53:33,370 --> 00:53:36,400
through depression, like, you know,
or had people around you with depression,

956
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,640
it's not a good place to be in when you
wanna make thin.. produce things, right?

957
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:43,050
And so, part of it is like just finding ways
to fall in love with it again.

958
00:53:43,050 --> 00:53:45,950
And so, for me that was part of it,
it was just trying to find ways

959
00:53:45,950 --> 00:53:49,840
to kind of fall in love with things again,
to the point where I really want to make them.

960
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:54,190
And the other one, for me, too, I mean
I know there's whole movements of people

961
00:53:54,190 --> 00:53:56,470
who are doing these kind of digital retreat
things which is something I hadn't

962
00:53:56,470 --> 00:54:01,710
participated in in a formal setting,
but for me just getting away for a moment

963
00:54:01,710 --> 00:54:04,860
and having these excuses, even for just
a few days or a week, to sort of

964
00:54:04,860 --> 00:54:09,740
exist by myself without connection..
I know it's nothing new, I know

965
00:54:09,740 --> 00:54:12,320
that people are talking about this,
but it had a real effect on me.

966
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:15,340
I mean, one thing that i noticed was,
I was much more present, like,

967
00:54:15,340 --> 00:54:18,320
especially on the UK trip, where..
these are like really cliffy regions,

968
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,340
you know, so a lot of the hiking trails
that I was shooting on were like

969
00:54:21,340 --> 00:54:24,820
really steep drop-off on the other side
of this path, and so I couldn't even do

970
00:54:24,820 --> 00:54:27,860
what I normally do, even when I'm away
from email, but I'm walking around the city

971
00:54:27,860 --> 00:54:30,830
and I'm still thinking about.. 'Oh, I gotta
email this person, I gotta do that..'

972
00:54:30,830 --> 00:54:34,560
I'm not really present, right.
And I noticed that I had to, like,

973
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,570
stop doing that because I kept
slipping and falling and, like,

974
00:54:37,570 --> 00:54:40,110
I didn't wanna die.
And so I had this moment

975
00:54:40,110 --> 00:54:43,290
being out in nature again, where,
not only was I away from the tech,

976
00:54:43,290 --> 00:54:46,660
but mentally I had to step away from it too,
just to be really thinking about

977
00:54:46,660 --> 00:54:50,900
'Left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot'.
And being able to do that for a few days,

978
00:54:50,900 --> 00:54:53,550
like, now, I'm lining up my schedule
throughout the year

979
00:54:53,550 --> 00:54:56,360
where I'm setting up these moments,
where I have that time to do it.

980
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,560
And, I don't know if that's the answer or
not,

981
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:00,340
but for me it's been one way to deal with
it.

982
00:55:00,340 --> 00:55:03,420
Angel: Thank you very much. Next question
from this microphone please.

983
00:55:03,420 --> 00:55:06,360
Q: Thank you very much.I don't know, is it
on?

984
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:08,710
Angel: Yeah, it's on. Just speak into it.

985
00:55:08,710 --> 00:55:11,810
Q: Thank you very much for your talk.
I'd actually, for me personally,

986
00:55:11,810 --> 00:55:18,290
I've been also struggling a lot with the
thought about the dark sides of the internet

987
00:55:18,290 --> 00:55:18,720
recently,

988
00:55:18,720 --> 00:55:21,590
and your talk actually gave me back a lot
of

989
00:55:21,590 --> 00:55:23,710
positive attitude about it, so

990
00:55:23,710 --> 00:55:27,870
that you very much for that.
But one question that I have:

991
00:55:27,870 --> 00:55:32,770
What is your 10-second definition of
what is art, for you?

992
00:55:32,770 --> 00:55:35,460
Evan: Oh my god.
*laughing*

993
00:55:35,460 --> 00:55:36,000
*laughing*

994
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,830
Evan: Alright, here's a short one I came up
with,

995
00:55:38,830 --> 00:55:41,560
'cause the long one's hard, right?

996
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:46,830
I think design is creative work that is influenced
directly by money and art is creative work

997
00:55:46,830 --> 00:55:51,510
that is influenced indirectly by money.
And that's kind of the only difference.

998
00:55:51,510 --> 00:55:53,050
*laughing*
*applause*

999
00:55:53,050 --> 00:55:55,360
Q: Thank you.

1000
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:59,220
Angel: Thank you. Next question from that
microphone over there.

1001
00:55:59,220 --> 00:56:02,770
Q: Hi. So I wasn't familiar with your work..
I'm over here.

1002
00:56:02,770 --> 00:56:05,930
I'm not familiar with your work, and
I really like it.

1003
00:56:05,930 --> 00:56:09,620
And what I liked most about it is
really that sense of excitement and wonder

1004
00:56:09,620 --> 00:56:15,630
that you first had when you discovered..
what was it? SCP? No, it was..

1005
00:56:15,630 --> 00:56:18,080
Evan: Yeah, FETCH.
Q: Yeah, FETCH, right.

1006
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:20,640
That's sort of.. that's still there in many
ways,

1007
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:22,620
it's different, but it's still there.

1008
00:56:22,620 --> 00:56:26,800
So, you know, I.. I recently discovered
physics, and I've had sort of

1009
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:30,040
the same thing where I am like,
wow, we're able to understand things

1010
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:33,210
in a way that I didn't think it was
possible, because I hated physics

1011
00:56:33,210 --> 00:56:36,230
in school, and realized that
this way it was taught

1012
00:56:36,230 --> 00:56:39,620
that was really boring.
And so I'm thinking, ok,

1013
00:56:39,620 --> 00:56:43,570
if I were to do something
like that, it requires you to

1014
00:56:43,570 --> 00:56:46,280
sort of take that step away
from the technicality of it

1015
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:49,240
to see the technicality of it.
And how do you, with the internet,

1016
00:56:49,240 --> 00:56:52,750
how are you able to keep that distance
and has that been a problem for you?

1017
00:56:52,750 --> 00:56:57,110
Evan: I mean, maybe it's easier for me
because I'm not all that smart technically.

1018
00:56:57,110 --> 00:57:00,910
I mean, it's not like I was ever so close,
like most of the code.. I had some

1019
00:57:00,910 --> 00:57:04,440
formal training when I got to
graduate school, but I was never..

1020
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:06,400
I'm not a very happy programmer.

1021
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,010
You know, it was never my kind of
native realm anyway,

1022
00:57:09,010 --> 00:57:11,650
like, I came more from the design field.

1023
00:57:11,650 --> 00:57:15,430
So it didn't feel like anything I was having
to turn off so much

1024
00:57:15,430 --> 00:57:19,190
'cause maybe I wasn't ever all that
close to it, in a sense.

1025
00:57:19,190 --> 00:57:22,570
I don't.. that's maybe a bad answer,
but it's probably the truth.

1026
00:57:22,570 --> 00:57:24,440
I've been trying to get closer to physics
too.

1027
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:25,230
Q: Yeah?

1028
00:57:25,230 --> 00:57:28,510
Evan: Like for me, like, I'm super fascinated
by the electromagnetic spectrum right now.

1029
00:57:28,510 --> 00:57:31,680
Like the answer's in there, somewhere,
I feel like, you know? *laughing*

1030
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:35,130
Q: Alright, thanks!
Angel: Awesome. Next question from here.

1031
00:57:35,130 --> 00:57:41,050
Q: Ok, thanks. I just.. I mean, the idea
of understanding what's happening

1032
00:57:41,050 --> 00:57:44,280
in the internet is quite important,
and I think we're a bit biased here

1033
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:50,470
because we all have that visualization
of the internet, and

1034
00:57:50,470 --> 00:57:54,200
my question now is:
Your visualization is of course very

1035
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:59,570
very valid and very vivid, but
all those people that.. that do those

1036
00:57:59,570 --> 00:58:04,490
movements and they scroll facebook,
how can we make this visualization,

1037
00:58:04,490 --> 00:58:08,830
because your.. yours is quite complicated,
actually, and not as fast.

1038
00:58:08,830 --> 00:58:13,920
How could we.. how could we manage to
give.. give them some sort of visualization,

1039
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:17,570
because what.. what they see is only
the apps, and they don't really

1040
00:58:17,570 --> 00:58:19,380
get to think about it more.

1041
00:58:19,380 --> 00:58:23,960
Evan: Yah. I don't know the answer to that.
I mean, it's.. for me, part of the reason

1042
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:27,880
that the infrastructure side is so interesting,
is that I think that there's something

1043
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:31,780
empowering about seeing what it is
and knowing how it works.

1044
00:58:31,780 --> 00:58:34,620
Like, when it seems less mystical and
magical, like the cloud, of course,

1045
00:58:34,620 --> 00:58:38,880
is this terrible metaphor that we all hate,
and I think once.. even when I'm explaining

1046
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:43,510
my work to non-technical people,
the conversations I get into are actually

1047
00:58:43,510 --> 00:58:46,050
kind of interesting, 'cause they're interested
in knowing that too, 'cause people

1048
00:58:46,050 --> 00:58:48,510
don't really talk about it.
The media doesn't talk about it.

1049
00:58:48,510 --> 00:58:51,040
The companies that are trying to sell
them services don't talk that way

1050
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:55,190
'cause it doesn't benefit them, right,
it's like... Apple, when your phone fills

1051
00:58:55,190 --> 00:58:55,350
up,

1052
00:58:55,350 --> 00:58:58,070
they just want you to click here to get
more cloud storage space, and

1053
00:58:58,070 --> 00:59:01,630
they don't want you to know how to
plug in a cable and get it off.

1054
00:59:01,630 --> 00:59:05,710
And so I think it's.. the question that
you're asking is one that I'm asking myself,

1055
00:59:05,710 --> 00:59:09,580
like, how do you communicate some of these
ideas to people that are..

1056
00:59:09,580 --> 00:59:12,870
I mean, I'm interested in both sides,
I'm interested in people that are

1057
00:59:12,870 --> 00:59:16,050
technically adapt, having interesting ideas
and conversations around this,

1058
00:59:16,050 --> 00:59:19,200
but then, how do you also communicate
to people that this is a new conversation

1059
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:21,760
to?

1060
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,320
I don't know the answer to that,
that's what I'm trying to kind of wrestle

1061
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:24,410
with

1062
00:59:24,410 --> 00:59:25,230
in a sense.

1063
00:59:25,230 --> 00:59:32,160
But I have.. I recently did a show in Florida
at a university, and the docents there,

1064
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:35,010
like the people that introduce people
to the work, were all like senior citizens

1065
00:59:35,010 --> 00:59:38,610
that were volunteering time to the museum,
and they were one of the most engaged

1066
00:59:38,610 --> 00:59:43,040
group of people I've ever had surrounding
my work, 'cause they.. they knew..

1067
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:46,380
it's not like they never heard of this stuff
before, but they had a relationship with

1068
00:59:46,380 --> 00:59:49,850
technology, but they were more willing
to ask questions about it,

1069
00:59:49,850 --> 00:59:52,670
like they weren't.. they didn't.. they didn't
care if it sounded stupid,

1070
00:59:52,670 --> 00:59:56,220
and they were asking all those really
interesting questions, and

1071
00:59:56,220 --> 00:59:58,840
seeing that happen to a community
of people who were maybe

1072
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:03,450
a further step removed from technology
than I even am, that..

1073
01:00:03,450 --> 01:00:05,960
it's not that it was successful, but
it felt to me that.. that they could

1074
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:09,930
understand and have a relationship
to it as art pieces, meant that there

1075
01:00:09,930 --> 01:00:14,200
was something there that was consumable
by people that weren't.. aren't in this room,

1076
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:15,060
you know?

1077
01:00:15,060 --> 01:00:18,810
Angel: Alright, thank you.
As time is almost up, guy in orange,

1078
01:00:18,810 --> 01:00:21,590
you got the honour of the last question.

1079
01:00:21,590 --> 01:00:26,600
Q: With your browser cache thing,
I did something similar with my computer.

1080
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:30,650
I wrote a little script that runs in the
background and makes a screenshot

1081
01:00:30,650 --> 01:00:32,710
every.. random seconds,
Evan: Ok.

1082
01:00:32,710 --> 01:00:36,690
Q: And I had hoped about.. forgetting
about it, but actually the...

1083
01:00:36,690 --> 01:00:44,670
the counterpart happened, that I checked
the screenshots for every moment

1084
01:00:44,670 --> 01:00:47,620
I didn't have anything to do.
And my behaviour was extremely

1085
01:00:47,620 --> 01:00:51,330
affected by it. Was.. did you have the
same feeling about your browser cache?

1086
01:00:51,330 --> 01:00:53,000
Evan: Yeah.
Q: Ehm, work?

1087
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:56,760
Evan: Maybe later we can trade notes,
I'd like to see your work.

1088
01:00:56,760 --> 01:01:00,020
Exactly, like one of the main things
about that piece was like, it's like

1089
01:01:00,020 --> 01:01:03,020
living with a security camera, right,
and you always know it's there,

1090
01:01:03,020 --> 01:01:07,690
like, I've gotten better and better about
forgetting, but I still know it's there,

1091
01:01:07,690 --> 01:01:11,050
I still think about it, and I tried to do
portraits of other people, like,

1092
01:01:11,050 --> 01:01:15,380
friends, like who else you're gonna ask
to give your internet cache browsing data

1093
01:01:15,380 --> 01:01:15,830
to,

1094
01:01:15,830 --> 01:01:18,180
right?
And it's..I recognized it was like a really

1095
01:01:18,180 --> 01:01:20,540
invasive question to ask people,
you know?

1096
01:01:20,540 --> 01:01:23,490
You're really asking people.. I mean,
usually the cache people give me

1097
01:01:23,490 --> 01:01:27,440
when I was making portraits of other people,
I would tell them and then they would surf

1098
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,070
and give it to me.
Like, to just tell them, give me the cache

1099
01:01:30,070 --> 01:01:30,260
that

1100
01:01:30,260 --> 01:01:33,410
you didn't know I was gonna.. you didn't know
I was monitoring, is like a really

1101
01:01:33,410 --> 01:01:36,050
invasive question to ask.
But yeah, it's like essentially learning to

1102
01:01:36,050 --> 01:01:39,860
live with a security camera.
But that's meant to be kind of built into

1103
01:01:39,860 --> 01:01:43,170
the piece, too, 'cause maybe, getting
back to the last question, like,

1104
01:01:43,170 --> 01:01:46,320
one of the reactions I get from
when people see that work in the gallery is

1105
01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:51,110
like.. they're like, oh wow, that's a really..
maybe giving is the wrong word, but

1106
01:01:51,110 --> 01:01:55,040
that's a lot of.. it's a lot of.. you're sharing
a lot, right, is the common reaction

1107
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:56,400
I get from people.

1108
01:01:56,400 --> 01:02:00,240
And.. but part of the idea is then..
we're all kind of sharing this

1109
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:03,000
in different ways, right,
this print, just because I put it in the gallery

1110
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:05,780
doesn't mean there's any more or less
eyeballs on that set of data

1111
01:02:05,780 --> 01:02:08,940
than your data, or your friend's data.

1112
01:02:08,940 --> 01:02:12,550
But yeah, of course, when you know
the camera is there, it definitely

1113
01:02:12,550 --> 01:02:19,310
affects behaviour.