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[Music]
for our uh first Speaker of the day day
three we have um someone here who whose
name I have to pronounce on swo
it seems like some people in Holland and
Belgium call him
SWA but that's another another
interpretation but uh Stefan is not
really U the German Catholic priest that
you would be googling now
no um but he has as well a very special
interest in networking security and
measurement skill set his fellow name
holder that you can find Googling on
Wikipedia presumably is using as
well um swo is a well-known player in
the internet field here um since more
than two
decades and uh being involved in various
programs events and comites like uh if I
pronounce this right Euro 9 or Euro iix
yeah and Dino so some of you probably
know him um he's as well a founding
member and managing director of E6 for
15 years so that makes him uh
besides being an old fart like
me he's above all a time traveler an
everlasting Wanderer an Explorer a
learner and Heavenly willing to share
his experience and knowledge with all of
us so I have the pleasure to introduce
to you SW
please
enjoy
perfect so good morning everyone there
are a lot of people here I have not
expected you all here as I was reaching
the venue place in the morning it was
empty there were no one in the trim and
no one on the streets and uh it's good
to see that some made it today even it's
day three and I know that's really hard
for you I really thank you very much
that you joined me for this talk so um
as said before um and as it was
announced it's a little bit about n
neutrality um this is the red line
through the whole presentation um it's a
big bus word um I'm not really a legal
guy I'm not in economics I'm coming from
the network side and don't be
disappointed I will not tell you
anything about big legal things I think
there was a talk Yesterday by a lawyer
which was much better than I could do it
and so don't be surprised if it's all
the network Centric so as I work for a
company standard disclaimer if you like
read it later um so what's this talk
about I will show the commercial aspects
um and how they influence the internet
and especially internet access and this
is the only part of the internet where
we actually get numbers because
everything else is some way in the
hidden in the cloud in the dust in the
fog name it and um then I want to give
you some Glimpse what arguments are used
by Advocates and opponents uh of net
neutrality that will be the last slides
and um this all was inspired by a movie
made um a few years ago and uh I have
their presentation during midnight All
Creatures welcome maybe some of you have
already seen this um I have a small part
actually it was a 3-hour recording
session it was 8 minutes left at the end
I'm not as lucky we had uh 120 slides we
are now down to 80 so I have to hurry a
little bit so let's start start um these
are the topics I want to discuss today I
want to present today early days where
it all started and um funny enough the
first paper you can read which has
little bit relation to the internet is
inter Intergalactic computer
network
Intergalactic 1930
1963 um and we have then the upper net
most of you maybe already heard of it um
this is a predecessor of the internet as
we know it today um operating for a
really long time 27 years and um it was
sometimes misinterpreted as daret
because of the naming the company
actually The Entity behind it was the
arer arer was later also called darer
therefore it's darer net it's the same
network no difference milnet split off
uh was split off later from uper net and
um I think the most important part of
the sketch is the NSF net and then later
the NS net there will be some slides
explaining why they are important so
that was a good time by the way on one
page the whole internet you cannot do it
today anymore I think we would need all
walls here in this room to have only a
tiny Glimpse how the network looks today
but this fits on a piece of paper and
actually if you look at it this is a
quite nice mixture of unque University
say Stanford I can see their UCLA USC
rotas the right blue file there's arper
there's run corporation which is
commercial one but there's all companies
like deck and serox and um as you see in
the beginning there were already
people not only from the research
Community using this network there were
also commercial companies involved in it
even if they were on the applier for the
hardware
there so as I had said before nsfnet I
think this is one of the important
Network they built National Science
Foundation has built five new
supercomputer centers in North America
they wanted to connect them a problem
was then is researcher at this time has
for every computer every super computer
was built he has a new terminal on the
desk and think of it five supercomputer
Center three others you have eight
screens and every screen has a different
command set that's a really boring and
as these people try to do as don't want
to do more work than they actually have
to do um they're really trying to make
it easier for them so they said okay it
would be nice to have one terminal and
that connects to every every these these
big computer centers so nsfnet was
founded nsfnet actually exists um from
81 to uh uh 95 85 sorry to 95 BWI is
funny it starts with we would call it
ISDN inte Ser digital Network 64k bit 56
6 kit this is the American speed and
went up to 45 megit and later there were
also 600 megit but this was in the last
years only um they invented something
called a tier anybody heard of the name
tier in the relation to network thank
you
one maybe some guys from the research
community in the front um so what is it
here um this is a definition for this a
level or grade within the hery of an
organizational system actually it only
says they the big ones they connect they
they have the e view they connect every
location in the then you have a more
distribution layer where uh you have an
two which maybe you could think of big
cities or regions where have an operator
covering this area and the third the
green tiny circles that could be your
access provider maybe some of you have
already heard from something like in
Berlin or snur or yeah but netm
expresses all Berlin uh internet
provider smaller ones they would
actually be layer three so um the goal
was actually with NSF the goal was
research and education
but they phrased it primarily that does
not say that they're not allowed to do
commercial things there and they set up
an acceptable use policy actually one of
the first policy ever invented for
network and that not states that this
accept use policies only for research
they said it's not important who you are
accept our rules and you can use the
network nice idea everything
noncommercial could work on it and um
the um NSF National Science Foundation
actually doesn't monitor it so you could
actually anything you want to do on it
and um that was the reason why they got
problems with the regional isps in this
times I I wouldn't call them isps in
these times call them Regional Networks
and uh problem was that actually what
was the killer application these times
anybody knows worldwide web was
later uset Net News mail all these old
really great stuff some have already
heard for UCP and dial in and even in
well I think they dropped it a few years
ago this dial in stuff in Linux
distributions and other operating
systems they canceled it because nobody
uses it anymore but was the basis the
killer application was email they have
six a dozen different email systems in
America and with this NSF net they could
connect these mail systems so you could
send email if you were at compy serve to
time net to the research Community
without having five different emails
accounts and to use your modem to dial
into five different platforms you could
use one and it was
forwarded so um as I said
interconnecting mail service actually um
they were more commercial give you some
names alternate later called you unet
PSI net surf
net and um you see now comes economics
in early stage so economics covers both
commercial and non-commercial aspects of
the internet and there is really hard to
find the a really good definition um I
think I've found one which is um
explains itself I've read it for you
internet economics describe various
facets and how we build operate and use
the internet and look at these
activities from a perspective of
Economics nothing more to say about
it RNs so what is RS and this is also
one of the last slides for the first
part of the
presentation ANS net was actually
founded by Merit IBM MCI in1 if you look
at the date it's actually with nsfnet
operating to the late '90s
um it's actually run has two hearts in
his uh uh beating in his breast there
was non-commercial and Commercial the
non-commercial part was the NSF net
backbone this is more the tier one you
have seen these red clouds there in the
tier presentation that was NSF Benet
backbone then you have the more
commercial aspect called core commercial
plus research that was the actual
backbone where it runs on so they shared
the same media research and Commercial
companies they used the same backbone
there and uh was later sold and uh was
switched off
2015 actually 3 years
ago actually this is
uh is really really not happened uh
decades ago only three years so these
things live a long time on the internet
so start of conversation of the internet
definitely with RS definitely with RNs
core
and then somebody said use net net news
the first mailing list pops up and ask
hey actually who pays for the internet
and that will be my next topic who will
pay for the internet because you will
not get everything for free and even the
research uh Community even if I have D
pockets as an
example upet was founded with a million
US Dollars which they took from a
missile defense system so that was
actually the basis of the upet Bas
internet view Ed was uh money they
actually used for defense system for
missile Rockets I think it's quite
impressive um that it was possible 1
million EUR in this time was my dollar
sorry was really a lot of money so
network access points
um network access points as you see in
the hierarchy you have to have to to
hand over traffic to the next level of
your higher sh goes up and these points
where you have the all connecting where
they all connect they're called network
access points and that's um was a
problem with the first Network actually
you have to use the
NPS and you have to pay for the
Naps so how it looks like we have used
the tier one presentation few slides
before and as you can see the red clouds
think of it as the NSF backbone or the
NS core and they change a little bit of
money because they were all over North
America and it was not for free but
interesting is the second part and now
look at the blue boxes and blue boxes
they have to pay money to the NP points
to the network access points and all the
traffic they transfere from 2 to two and
say the left is West Coast the right is
east coast it's actually um you pay
twice for your traffic because both
parties paid for the traffic to the nap
in a way it makes sense because it was a
good service who could um afford a link
between the west and the east coast in
these times it was pretty expensive if
you wanted to have really good bandwidth
there so but what what's the other
case if you are both in the same Data
Center and maybe the other note the
other blue note is standing in the reach
of your
hand why should I transfer all the
traffic to NP pay for it and send it
back down
paying for traffic which I actually
could transfer if I put a cable between
these two
sides and that was the starting point of
the internet exchanges and the internet
exchanges were something who Aggregates
this approach to put these connections
inside the data center put them together
this Regional stuff and to give them the
opportunity to we call it peering um to
transfer traffic without paying for it
both sides got transferred that's the
ideal idle approach
so that was it for the
Naps so there was Europe
too yeah um we have the dfn somebody
know these guys they have started
1985 with the network based on oie
protocol I will not talk about oie that
would fill an hour um but it's
definitely not compatible uh with with
the network we use today and called the
internet and there were two other
universities the older people maybe know
them this is unido on xlink based on
universities one is in Dortmund the
other one was in CSU which actually have
already connectivity to the upet to the
internet in the US and they used their
um packet based transport mechanism it
was quite expensive but that was
actually the foundation not the BFN they
switched over later um took them some
time to accept the that they cannot have
the search Community put on o even if
it's maybe the better protocol I don't
want to discuss it it's uh yeah so um
individual networks an association was
founded in 1992 it was quite old as I
seen this I thought oh my God I have
never thought that it's so old um that
they started so early with it and uh I
have to say good work guys that was
really good that you were there and uh a
tiny side note in history the English
guys already had in
1973 connectivity to opet 12 years
before the German scientific Network
started with oie in in Germany so well
okay German Telecom um everybody knows
bch text I think we all have seen this
logo more less in the last 20 years a
lot of these congresses and it was one
of the first texts of the CCC see and
um how is it related to
internet there were 850,000 CDs sent out
with a mosaic browser when they Ed the
btx platform to dial into the internet
even it was low speed that was one of
the reasons this was actually the
starting point dialing connectivity over
the btx platform and uh there were also
other companies like CompuServe and I
also diin pools at univers ities I can
remember the time where we have
Technical University in Berlin we have
had eight modem lines to the internet
and they were really crowded and we have
these you know this is around you have
to dial with your finger and was not
pushing buttons so you have really to
dial something there um a rotating
dialer so then there were smaller I
already have set some names netm nafu
other companies you have to think of
them as these tiny green bottles in the
tier models who have actually access to
the internet uh and give if you Dent
platform there so other services was
there competitor in the market yes there
were some people maybe remember the name
fonet mailbox systems they were quite
popular and
uh after internet was establish they
were all gone so nice summary for the
first half um day Zero of the internet
when did it start
83 TCP IP protocol was switched on in
the Ala net and the old protocol was
switched off that was the first time
that a network 100% run on tcpip the
first email was received in cut through
in '84 um the E domains in ' 86 and in '
89 the hypertex protocol was invented by
a guy at CERN and I personally think
this was for the commercial internet and
for the internet for um the the private
uh for for private customers this is an
important thing because that was the
first time that this cryptic internet
suddenly got a face suddenly got an easy
to use interface and in '95 um already
said before German Telecom sent out
these CDs and people started to use this
stuff on their PCS and they had the
first experience of even if it was
really slow and mosa was maybe not the
best browser in the world it was a
browser and um you could see pictures
you could see uh ceilings and so on and
so on there's a whole story behind it if
I would unfold it um you will not have
uh we would have breakfast tomorrow
morning it's it's really really uh a lot
of stuff happening then in the meantime
therefore cut here um maybe this is part
of another uh presentation should be
done by any other guy on me we'll see so
Network explained um that is maybe for
some of you very boring part as you
already know it or maybe work in this
area but um let's look at the traffic
flow on the internet and this is very a
very very very very simple model there
and uh don't blame me for it if you
think it's not right we can discuss
later um so starting in the middle the
core and uh the core we have now again
the tier model we have seen before and
the tier model um also the links between
the big providers there um which
actually not pay for them for the
traffic as you can see there are a good
dozen companies today this is the actual
list um from from this year um quite
International a lot of companies from
the first world you see no South not not
too much South American or African
companies there um also not too many
Asian but um this is uh actually the
people who run the backbone between the
continents if you think of the clouds
maybe as the continents and cross links
in between they will Supply you with
this so and then we have the tier two
you pay for this um some money if you
want to have traffic there and exchange
traffic and if you're in the green area
in the T3 you pay a little bit more um
to get access to the internet and what I
do not shows if it would go to a little
bit further down then this is the access
that's you actually using the internet
at the end so in an Ideal World traffic
would be for free as the um as you can
see between the green bubble there um if
they would have a direct connection who
should pay for this it could be quite
cheap there but it's not reality reality
is in worst case that you have to Trend
traffic from tier three to tier 2 to
tier one and then back again to tier two
and tier three so you pay a lot of money
both sides pay for this and that was the
idea in the beginning with the internet
the NSF net like the Americans thought
it could work reality is more like this
we have this tier 2 which is really the
backbone of the internet I would say and
there you have um links between all
these providers at this level and if you
see some of them have zero dollar there
that could be an internet exchange as an
example or a direct cross connect
between two companies in the same
building and now it gets cheaper for the
green guys and actually also cheaper for
the guys sitting behind the green
bubbles and
uh it could even be better if they have
a DI link and as the interconnection
prices get cheaper and the long distance
link is getting cheaper this is also
happening
today good
now
access this is a really complex sheet um
it's actually Four kinds of devices by
the way um this company are use the
icons for CPE devices here they have the
best icon set it's there are 100 other
companies who canum Supply with these
box es um so what we have there starting
in the lower is the 4G maybe in the next
year with 28 GHz the 5G networks in the
metropolitan
areas the not bound on wire stuff and
then you have the fiber to the home
that's you get the fiber there and some
magic technology transports lights into
your flat and then there's internet on
it and some other stuff we will see
later then the classical catv Networks
which are um using corx cables um now
they have uh band reserves up to 2 gab
bit per second and now sell 500 megabit
up to a gigabit and uh yeah then going
up the orange ones is copper lines let's
see two wires of copper going into a
flat once used for telephone now it's
actually all Internet Protocol or yeah
it's actually transporting internet over
another protocol but uh
um yeah there you have the
differentiation we call the if you look
at the first grar on the left and then
the second is more to the right this
space in between you call the last mile
the last mile is actually from the axis
where you get access to the internet to
the core to your own flat where you're
living where you have your termination
device your customer premise equipment
CPE so um don't forget this is not
access there's another infrastructure
between core and The Last Mile this is
the access layer you have to distribute
because these areas you have to cover
really big so you have another layer of
network stuff and equipment in between
it's called the access layer all this
stuff is connected by fibers and um the
um later we will focus on the DSL links
uh most common and I think there's the
only real numbers we can
compare um yeah coming to the
content content delivery in the middle
it's a core you see a tiny world map
inside and then you have all these areas
North America Africa uh South AF South
America sorry Europe China and then you
have Australia and Africa Africa will be
later inside I've uh sorry forgot it in
this slide
um but it's there and there you have
these big cloud providers um Everybody
heard of AWS aour Oracle And even
company like Salesforce and SRP who
actually sell only one product are now
put into these corner of the cloud
operators and um they have data centers
with a lot of servers inside which are
located in your region and uh there are
also initiatives like in China Alan I
hope I have pronounced it right um and
we have also cloud services in Germany
which are really focusing on a local
market so um the this Market grew they
are more competitive on the market
nowadays and um their Market is changing
fast as you can see the
blue arrows I have there that's actually
Internet Protocol that is something
where the traffic you use is
transported um if you take Google with
alphabit if you have the Google search
Eng actually running on this blue links
but nowadays they also connect these
areas um with their own private
infrastructure so traffic comes closer
to you and you only see and this is a
bad thing for research um you cannot see
where the traffic actually comes from
I'll give you an example I think we have
some time for this um yeah um think of
it the way you have a service on your
smart device which have a Json interface
an interface which only pulls data and
present it in a nice way on your device
um and then you connect to Frankfurt to
AWS this only example you can go to aour
it's the same story and then where is
your data actually stored is this in
Frankfurt is your all personal data
stored in Frankfurt you do not know
because the same data could be in North
America it could be in Asia or it could
be split in both locations and all the
data from this point where you actually
pull the data to your nice interface all
these data what happens behind is
transported over their infrastructure
ructure maybe based on IP and Internet
Protocol but it's not public internet
you cannot see what kind of traffic
flows there and therefore they built
actually a second Network layer there um
which is a quite interesting thing but
could be think of the tier model which
traffic is actually going away actually
the traffic from the tier ones because
the tier ones normally transport traffic
from continent to continent but if this
is actually done by the cloud providers
on their own with their own equipment
with their own link
there's no traffic on these links
anymore and to give you another idea you
have these transatlantic fiber links
under SE cables more than 90% of the
traffic is not internet this is
Enterprise this is commercial traffic so
the internet s use is actually a tiny
part of the traffic produced
worldwide there's a good reason
why so content classical one we started
with a server somewhere have it really
thick pipe there and then we connect to
the core and then it's distributed
worldwide and then you get complaints
from Asia that your server is too slow
and what you can actually do you can put
in every location a server it's quite
expensive and then somebody had a really
brilliant idea and said build a Content
distribution Network there are some
vendors names on the right side of the
sketch um who built caches these red
tons I have there they put all of these
caches into the com networks as near as
possible to to the client to make it as
fast as possible these cashes are
normally transporting your content um by
copying this content to these sites and
by DNS redirection name service
redirection you are getting the traffic
from the side which is
nearest which means that you get it fast
and you do not have to wait a lot there
lator sketch explains why this is
important why you have to transfer
traffic really fast in this network for
economic reasons so um then there has a
special case audio and video first look
yeah this looks like CDN it's actually
the same thing it's if it's a text or
it's a movie or an audio file why should
I make a difference there actually there
is a difference because you distribute
this audio and video stuff because of
digital Rights Management things and
issues there are different in different
areas there is different contents there
are even Services which you cannot get
um one of the set things maybe as an
example in Europe BBC has um services
online which you cannot access from
Central Europe and that's not the cause
because they have brexit that was well
before so the problem here is that these
content is most of the time local um
content so now maybe some of you heard
of it
Ott and I did not miss an O there it's
not called Auto it's over the top over
the top means these are operators who do
not have their own network they do not
have some exess Network like Time Warner
and us who owns a cable network and who
owns film studios so they have a line of
trans producing content trans storing it
transferring it to the end customers and
get paid by the end customers for this
content um no these people do not have
this they really rely on the stuff you
have um that that that you have a
running Network to the customer which
has enough bandwidth and enough quality
of service that the experience for the
end customers is a good one a great one
course else you wouldn't pay for
it and um this is only a definition for
this who is actually doing this search
engines social media platforms on we on
demand it was the example before in the
sketch and uh yeah and the last topic is
I think the thing where all the
discussion about the economics and who
pays for the actually starts especially
in Germany carer does not participate in
the earnings and the earnings here can
be two different kinds of um uh earnings
the one is cash if you have a connection
to the internet you pay cash
money these Otts can also be paid in a
different kind of money your personal
data by advertisement as an example
you're accepting this and and this is
the second it is much stronger and this
advertising stuff no access provider
sees any money from this this is
actually really privately owned by the
Otts and I think for the OTS they do not
care about the cash you pay most of them
they want your personal data has much
more value than every Bitcoin in the
world so you now have a nice
model we can make a shell with excess
and the next
Shell is the X layer and then we have
the center with a core and then inside
these middle part we have Cloud
providers CDN and um other services
actually the stuff that people Ma wants
to have and is it really true yes it is
true this is a sketch from kaida um they
have really nice this is why they have
really nice pictures of the internet
there I can only if you're interested
have a look at it there's a link there
kid.org
and this is a map from
2017 and you can really see how these
these onion shells developed there you
have the outer layer with the excess and
then it goes inside and it gets more
dense and more dense and dense and then
you see there's a core there's actually
really a core of a few sites which
Supply the internet with
[Music]
content so internet economics mentioned
it a few times before um now we are
diving into this topic and uh in this
topic we have the
um exess everybody has seen the street
cabinets in Germany is called car fet
it's really really nice name for um uh K
tyer and uh yeah this is regulated by
the bunes neture this it's a uh German
regulator and uh they said yeah
everybody should get access here
therefore
we have these frames has to be open for
other carriers too and um there actually
two points where you could use the
copper cable this is the Hop filer this
is the master distribution frame this is
a building which is about one and 1,500
m 1 half kilm away from you if you take
the length of the cable that was a
classic one this is the place where you
got 10 15 years ago your I stand
connectivity your internet connection
this is all
on this 1500 M you can run ADSL with 16
mbit but nowadays most these people have
50 mbit or 100it or even more so how to
do this because if you have more
bandwidth you have to get closer to the
customer so therefore you have these C
hot sets these um Street cabinets where
you have active equipment inside and um
last discussion we had where bit stream
excess and uh the bitstream excess this
is uh the stuff um
where actually it gots more important as
the vectoring came as 100 megabit links
to the access has happened the um the
cuper bundles you have there you can
only be run by one operator so you
cannot get the physical cable anymore
you can only get the AP traffic on it
and you transport it in layer two layer
2 is actually only transport layer you
have to put layer three on it layer
three is actually the IP the internet
layer so you get a layer two connect
there and uh this is regulated and there
are prices for this this is public stuff
you can read it but in this netagent
tour we have to look a little bit but
you will find it there are lists and
there's also this is all public you can
read this stuff how much money cost it
if you go from Master distribution frame
this is the thing which one 1,500 M away
from you you pay €10 per month and by
the way these prizes are all without vet
without meet stoer so don't be surprised
that you have on your bill different
numbers later um this is 19% less as I
cannot compare with these prices are
always in um without fat so as you can
see on the right side this is from
booger um the price actually went nearly
really slowly down from the price so
it's actually so and if you compare it
with the price of the internet if this
ISC connection to the link and the price
of the link as described there the
internet price goes down this way so
actually price for for the connectivity
for coule line stays the same and the
internet goes 100 times cheaper the
traffic you transfer there and in the
same time frame
So Physical
stuff yeah it's a lot of money inside
these things so from a street cabinet
which is 300 M away a little bit less
100 m then it's only 6 77 it's a little
bit less but still enough
so bitam access already mentioned
important keywords here is vectoring and
um second important keyword layer 2
access you have to go to a point of
interconnect from the operator of these
vectoring devices and then you have to
connect your equipment there and then
you can't in hand over there of the
traffic um of your customers um yeah and
how does a carrier pay for
it there's nothing like a flat rate
there actually you pay
a base price and there's some little bit
of traffic included but if you want to
have more quality of service traffic
then um you have the problem that the um
you want to have more then you have to
pay more for this as an example how this
is uh described there's uh later a
sketch for this um here um this is how
how it's describes it it includes a
monthly include a total traffic of 1.5
megabit in average and the real time
share of zero Dot and then you have
stream application so they split this
traffic up and as you can already see
they already look into the traffic in
the bitstream access and there is
quality s of service involved and this
is actually the price for the internet
if you take the prices from to vendors
it's stman Telecom and O2 um only
important here is the orange part this
is the price actually of the internet
traffic you have on these links and as
you can see this is nothing compared to
the rest of the price the blue one is
the hidden price this is all the stuff
from AIS to backbone and everything
which is there
included so
um the provider sells you traffic for a
gig bit of
€60 and um if you look at the market um
low quality is about 200 high quality
€2,500 for in gbit of traffic so it's
actually three times more expensive to
buy this on the free market or up to 42
we call this an overbooking Factor this
is one of the Trade Secrets nobody will
tell you because uh all the business
cases of the carriers depend on
it so
um internet of core defined that there's
a huge difference in price as you have
seen and quality and there are different
important things one of the important
things here you have to um think of it
has to be redundant resilience so
normally you have two lines where you
private have only one link you have two
links there um to get the connectivity
there um save so content delivery um in
former times every service was
transported on a different layer in a
different way on the net and um then
they put IP there IP is not internet
it's a protocol IP it's not the internet
and what they did they used this to
migrate all the stuff to IP to make it
cheaper and
but they still think it's it's a
different thing here and then the auto
Cam and they have the same services but
they use the part of the internet you
supply to your customers um so you have
now two VOD services on your network one
is in the eyes of the access provider
their own and the other thing is um the
VD Service uh which is run on the
internet and they need bandwidth for and
who pays for it to give you an idea Call
of Duty 100 GB of download that's equals
to 40 hours of 4K video each video has 7
GB of traffic so why do you care about
it fast internet normally means that
people who have a slow connectivity
normally wait up to 30 seconds before
they say 50% of CP no this content is
not important I me drop it and if you
have a fast connection this time
shortens to 5 seconds so if you don't
want to lose customers you really have
to have fast connectivity there um so
this is already said during the T we can
skip this one as I'm little bit Running
Out of Time wanted to uh go to Net
Neutrality as one of the last points net
neutrality defined um by the US in uh
2012 11 um n the principle that internet
service treat all data on the internet
equally and not discriminate or Char
charge different the by user content
website platform application type of
attached equipment or method of
communication a lot of topics covered
there this is the I would say
um this is based on the services of the
old internet not really taking into
account that there are OTS in the um
world so what we have in Germany is the
regulation and the regulation covers a
lot of things one of these things is net
neutrality so topics discussed in the
public is how neutral is the traffic is
traffic equal shine debata Bill debate
um de package inspection you will see
this in the Press on a regular base that
these things pop up there and last thing
is two classes internet this is one of
the strongest Arguments for people who
say we need a regulations there this is
a list of Pro and Contra arguments um I
think only to say is the last line I
think is is is in a way the importance
it's a good summary of all the topics
before the people who say we need net
morality say nobody owns the internet by
Design
remember as I started the presentation
the internet was equal for everyone it
was shared by commercial and research so
by Design actually there is no quality
of service inside that was not
differentiated and the Contra people say
the people who say we do not need nality
say they own the
network they can do what they want with
it because they have paid for it so it's
their
property and then this can happen this
is a Portuguese provider and this is
really scary in a way because there has
these smart net contracts where you get
flat rates for bundles of services um
what I really find scaring is there if
you look in the middle on the last line
there's even an email service included
there which was really surprising for me
why is Google Mail there I can think of
video on demand Services yes no problem
but why I have a mail service and this
is really a scary thing if they start to
put quality of service on the Bas
services and not only on the video on
demand Service as an
example then yeah I would say I would be
scared so Outlook that was requested by
the and I think then I'm nearly at the
end um this is an Outlook this is
mainstream fact you can read it in the
paper so what you can see here there's
grow rate between 15 to 58% depending on
the services video is one of the
strongest with
58% and uh there were numbers I do not
know where where the source is and I
think we have to have really looked
careful who has supplied you this number
Netflix doing 15% of the internet
worldwide it's a huge number and that
more than 50% of the internet traffic we
have today is encrypted which is a good
thing by the way I I like the idea that
a lot of these traffic is is cannot be
um put cannot look into the package with
dpack inspection can say okay this is
this traffic or what kind of traffic is
that transported
so um alphabet Google 40% in the apic
region we'll see this in Europe too
little less I think because we have also
strong competitors here and um what are
the
challenges what can we do actually here
net neutrality will be def uh will be
redefined that means we have to take
into account that there are these Otts
they exist but we have to find a way how
to handle it I do not know the answer to
this and there has to be a discussion
which will maybe go on for a few years
and uh the risk we have here is a wallet
Garden what is a wallet Garden wallet
Garden is everybody has a mobile phone
and what you have there is that all the
services you have you in a way is in in
a garden which has a huge wall around it
and this wall has Gates and everybody
who wants to go through these gates to
you as a customer has to
pay the one who owns the gate this is
wallet Garden and the wallet Garden can
be a good thing if you have a golden
cage then it's okay maybe you're lucky
um but there's a there there a lot of
examples where this wallet Garden is a
bad thing because it limits um the exess
and uh this wallet Gardens in the mobile
world could now swap over to the exess
world and if this happens you have seen
this Portuguese provider where even a
male service suddenly gets something
special you have to pay $4.99 for it
this is called wallet Garden do we want
to have this I wouldn't like it more
encryption uh more internet protocols
will be transported in tunnels um who
wants to look for the keywords DNS over
https and quick more web browser based
applications is ongoing um more and more
stuff you do not have applications on
your laptops you normally on your good
browser to run these things and uh as
I've seen presented before these links
between these different Cloud zones will
grow so actually the internet traffic
will only happen between you and the
content and um everything behind it will
be handled by the cloud operators and
more question mark paid Qs quality of
service we'll see so and the end a
personal statement from my side current
discussion about net neutrality is
needed we build the internet as a
network for exchange of ideas and nearly
free access to information
worldwide but this covers only the first
world this discussion so we shall never
forget that it's our responsibility to
preserve the original idea of the
internet and close refreshing memories
it was enjoyable to have do this
presentation as I've have also found
some stuff I have known before and I
thank you all very much for your
patience and uh thank you that I could
present it to
you
thank you s uh fantastic uh I personally
have quite some questions here but I
presume there are some in the audience I
see someone at uh number two please
shoot sure so um I actually have a very
short one and a little bit more
philosophical one so the short one is
about slide around slide 60 you showed
some qos numers numbers 60 around 60 I'm
not can't remember exactly um so um
where did you get those numbers from I
mean
0.001 megabyte per sec for critical
services or something like that are
those real numbers or um where where are
they from how did you come up with them
um I I repeat your question where is my
source of information for all these
numbers I presented here with the
traffic and uh how do I come to such low
numbers like a Euro for these for this
stuff and the base of these numbers it's
hard to get this um I used and I have a
calculation here but this pork was only
45 minutes so I couldn't put it into the
slide deck um it's actually uses the
axis numbers and extract this and then I
mix it up with the stuff from the
mainstream facts later where you see 12%
is Netflix and 58% is this traffic and
40% is alphabet so I put it in it's a
look and I definitely have to say this
in a crystal ball this is a wild guess
even if I would know the numbers these
stuff is top secret it's Business secret
even if I would know them I couldn't
tell you okay and U one other one
actually that um you say that uh VA
Gardens would be great um I tend to
potentially tend to agree no no no no no
you got it wrong I said maybe you're
lucky and you have a golden cage your
provider gives you a lot of things and
you are happy on not for my view as a
network operator more for you for a
customer you see you don't have to
forget you're maybe 2% of these people
who use the internet they are 98%
outside think of your parents think of
your grandparents these are the normal
internet users and therefore I said
these people could be happy with a
wallet Garden because they feel like in
a golden cage if there's a good support
why should they change it we would say
it's limiting us and but we are a
minority here what uh what my main
question is is that there I sometimes
feel that there should be huge
technological changes down in the in the
in the backbone uh I mean IP is that is
that the real good thing forward and
there are some uh very interesting ideas
like name data networks where you
actually address the data that you want
to reach instead of uh the the the end
points um how do how do you see these
picking up in the next uh decades do you
do you see any uh
any appearance of these in um yeah so um
I hope everybody has got this question
the I see what you mentioned in the
beginning in the interconnection of the
cloud providers because they are free
they can use their own propar standards
and what's really working will swap over
it's like with quick as Google invented
it and I'm not sure how which version
number they are now but they started it
internally and then they rolled it out
and and then there will be an RFC and
then there will be a standardization um
standardization is is not a Dean Norm
it's actually a request for comment and
if everybody agrees in then everybody
will be um accepting it and implementing
it sorry um if there's more questions I
will be here I'm happy to discuss this
with you but I think there are some more
people yes there are some more people um
and certainly if we discuss the golden
cage there think about the new developed
world and there the cages are maybe not
that golden but they need the
environment I would like to have a
sarcasm Shield here but was no time
number one please uh I think one of the
lessons of the Egyptian spring is that
you cannot shut down the internet if you
want to suppress public upheaval if the
industry is dependent on it so do you
see any moves of the internet industry
to kind of create a public network that
can be shut down while by preserving
businesso business
traffic um I would say a very strong yes
I see that there are people pushing this
and say we buildt a second a third a
fourth a fifth Network in parallel to
the existing internet so remember the
phrase two class internet maybe extended
and say there will be an endclass
internet one for business one for paying
customers one who pay for the extra
quality of service the third and the
fourth and the fifth scenario is this
base internet connectivity where you can
have not even see a Netflix movie
because it's even with Progressive
download it takes a long time for this
so it could happen and I think this is
one of the things we have to take care
of that this thing is not happening in
the
future it feels a little bit like taking
first class in do ban from Frankfurt to
leig to me then suddenly end complely
different yeah you end up in a different
situation it's not like fast but it
seems fast uh Mike two please yeah um hi
um my question was regarding the the
revenue streams for isps and if it's
considered that the infrastructure is
acquired with public investment most of
the times especially um for the big ones
which used to be part of the state and
used to own the network in the first
place is it clear uh I think I think
it's your point that I I try to to
rephrase it a little bit here and maybe
you can say yes or no if I get it right
um you say that if you look at the
access we have these nice sketches with
the links Cora C these all these
infrastructure was built by companies
owned by the government once and now
they're in private property and now they
sell back what we paid with our tax
money and I only copy the argumentation
we have seen five six years ago and uh
yes I think it's problematic in a way um
and um I
can say
that the part of the infrastructure
itself and running the infrastructure
you have to look at it the way that that
if you want this infrastructure
available for more than 80% of the time
you have to put money into it this money
has to be spent and it was spent by the
carriers in the last 10 years so maybe
you could say or
maybe it's hard to answer I I I would
say it's already paid off in the time
before it was privatized and the
privatized people the privatization and
the rebuild of the infrastructure and
extending the infrastructure was done by
the private companies or partly public
companies and there's a good reason why
they're allowed to sell this to us
because with the existing infrastructure
10 years ago it would have been really
hard as have you seen there were no
Street cabinets with Active technology
inside this is huge investment there
that wouldn't be possible so you right
10 years ago I would have totally agreed
with you that it's unfair nowadays I
would say hm there's so much money
invested into the X by lots of these
companies so um maybe they have the
right to sell it to us maybe but the
question here is with or without
regulation good food for thought please
sir shoot um I have a question about
these over-the-top services and this is
almost a political term I think which uh
tries to say that this is a trick they
are doing and I think that I pay for my
uh internet access and therefore I
should after all I have paid for it I
should have access to access to it and
uh I maybe it's only the the way of the
payment if I pay for a flat rate and
maybe you have a problem with this over
the top services but maybe we should pay
a fair price per gig gab or terabyte of
traffic as an end user so why why not uh
increase the price of the internet
access uh if um I W have free access to
all these Services okay um little more
complex answer here
um the first thing is um video streaming
started with 2 emits per second we now
at average Netflix stream 4 mbits and
with 4K we are going up to 10 meab 10
mbit per second and more problem here is
that the Otts use the network in a way
which is not intended to the protocol
itself is normally said that you an
average traffic so that you have you
guarantee an average kind of traffic and
what we do now is that we have these
peak hours so the overt providers if you
come home at 6 or 5 and you switch on
your video on demand box you're not the
only person doing it so you have a lot
of capacity to build up for this and
suddenly at 10: in the evening whoever
goes to bed not maybe us but a lot of
other people um the traffic goes near to
zero so this peak traic the problem now
is here you can see the movies the Bess
is there but it takes you a long time to
get it started or it takes in
Progressive download more than 20
seconds or more than a minute to start
streaming and as you seen the last
sketch if you have Broadband access
people switch the stream of 50% of the
people after 5 seconds so what's over
the top car is want from the carriers is
that they Supply them with the bandwidth
they need that the customer is not
switching off the stream in 5
seconds during 6:00 in the afternoon and
10 in the
afternoon and the internet was not built
this way sorry this peaky traffic is
really hard to accomplish and therefore
the
Otts it would be nice if everything
would happen you switch on every full
hour and maybe you switch on every half
hour the internet would be great but
both of you will switch on it at the
same time maybe at 8:15 after the target
show but but we both paid for the
bandwidth yes you I was paying for this
bandwidth and now you say I cannot exit
this because all the customers do it but
all the customers paid for it actually
yeah yeah you do not pay for the peak
traffic and this is something which
would be actually the um in another
presentation sorry um the the thing is
you're right you have a guarantee with
the BST it's a good point yes you have
this but we are talking about Peak
traffic and there's a difference between
Peak traffic and average
bandwidth I need a piece of paper and
Pen but we do not have here call and I
think not the time but I'm happy to talk
to you later about it and uh we'll be
here it seems as well that in this
universe and outside of this universe
there are some questions as well coming
from the Internet is there really an
important one because we need to clar
here uh you're available after this talk
but can I have the question from the
internet
please and there's no question from the
internet I is still deep sleep that's
good they're sleeping
then you're awake I take one more
question please yes kind of connected to
the last two questions um is there any
role for public infrastructure like if
local or the state governments took over
the last mile stuff does that actually
solve the problem
uh because of this no we not solve
um so give him a mic maybe he has the
answer for this where is the answer
where is the here is an answer okay want
to hear your opinion on it please ah
sorry um I'm a small town ISP uh guy so
we cooperate with a lot of City carriers
small ones in stutgart and uh being in
rling and so the point is if you look at
the cost structure of uh building the
local infrastructure there's a very good
point in doing it as a public
infrastructure because all these City
carriers basically uhat Val okay dig up
the streets of your city every 30 years
so the B there's a business case to
build this common infrastructure in one
run and not dig it up every 3 years for
water for power for gas and things like
that mhm so the point is that the
economic side of the discussion went
into regulating this Market in a way
that leads to a brain dead
implementation where we already dig up
the streets every few years for a
different part of the
infrastructure and we say we do it to
separate the different uh parts of the
infrastructure to keep this uh in a
regular
regulatory structure that is given by
the bunus Nets agentur but it's not a
useful structure but the point is if you
try
to publicly and politically challenge
this structure of the market it's very
difficult because all people say this
can't be done like you so I really
invite you the next time to have a talk
about thisat um the know is is small for
the whole of Germany um and I'm aware of
these approaches there even in Berlin
there were approaches like in Amsterdam
that some of the infrastructure is
public but um it got stuck okay that's
the topic then for 36 C3 or the camp I
thank you all for being here this early
um please thank to swo for having this
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insight
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yeah