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[Music]
this talk like basically Rama and I met
during the cinemag granta film festival
she's done an experimental documentary
about a hip-hop group in Sagal and
Gambia which started to produce uh very
highly engaged political uh lyrics and
used those lyrics in order to affect
political change and the documentary
follows this group their support of a
one party in particular their
disillusionment with that party and then
their ongoing commitment to political
change and using music for that and then
using different channels to gen like to
share the music and it was super
interesting for me because it was like
something
uh it related very much to the work that
I've done with Philipa Cesar and sanan
hadada on luta kabinda which is CR for
the struggle is not over yet and that's
basically rooted in Guerilla film making
movements of guine basau of the 60s
which was something initiated by a mil
car cabal who many of you are probably
not familiar with he was one of the
important um leaders of African
Independence movements not not only in
Guinea basau and Cape V but he operated
as an underground agent while employed
by the Portuguese government as a
agronomist so going out and doing land
surveys and research on farming across
the different Portuguese colonies so
while he was employed for the by the
Portuguese state which then had many um
colonies he was actively working to
organize resistance which later for
example in Guinea basau turned into
armed resistance
and the Declaration of Independence of
guine
basau
um this was this is I'm I'm giving you a
little bit of information one of the
more interesting things about that
movement is that when Fidel Castro
offered Military Support ail Kabal
basically said no what I need is to
train my population to become teachers
doctors and filmmakers and if you're
looking at something that happens in
1968 of course it's before internet but
basically his understand was the need
for a nation a newly born independent
state to have education healthc care and
a control of the media and so these are
the things which like what you start to
see um emerging as in a very uh
important militant form of film making
which was used to not only educate the
public about other parts of the uh
country but as well as to um educate
people about uh
like new farming techniques and give
them access to I guess other forms of
like other forms of narration so not
following the Portuguese models in any
case it ended up in very important
films so the the stuff that Rama works
on today follows in those footsteps of
people using the media that's closest to
them we started talking about like
militant film making with in the context
of cine migrant which is a like feminist
Run film festival dealing mostly with
with issues of migration it's fairly
Global in its scope and it happens in
Buenos Aris and Barcelona so it's yeah
the
um I think the context was important
last year because of the independence
movement in Barcelona that during the
festival we were there in exactly those
days so I can say that our inspired
conversation had lots and lots of like
um input puts starting points and like
points of
departure what we had sort of planned
now was to carry on in a tradition of
something which is from cyber
feminis cyber feminism to Xeno feminism
I think I hope most of you have some
notion of cyber feminism which is like
breaking away from a concept from Donna
haray of cyborg she wrote the cyborg
Manifesto in
1983 which if you sort of Imagine That
1983 the internet existed but not as
most people know it today and not as
most people knew it in 1993 so her
notion was like I think very
revolutionary then this was then uh
taken up by VNS Matrix who wrote The
Cyber feminist Manifesto in I think 1991
nor is that 91 again before like yeah an
Australian group of um like feminist
protagonists that were mostly busy in
online user environments like muds and
moo but they took so that even again
that internet was something very very
different the reason I'm saying this is
that each each of these things is
located within a specific time and space
and each of those politics gets played
out in a very different um media so like
the media that people are
using is part of where they are and when
they are I think it's very easy for us
like it's it's 2018 almost 2019
for a lot of like not just Millennials
for a lot of people that use
media how we use media today we often
forget what it was like 10 years ago or
even like 20 years ago and yet each of
these medias definitely inform how we
operate and how like even what we do
with the media is defined by how the
media informs us of what the media can
be I hope I'm not going too fast for the
translators so anyhow so this is
something it's it's like I'm aspiring
around anyhow that's I think that's I
hope that's enough of cyber feminism for
you I mean and then there was a like
later movement in the '90s European
cyber feminism I run a small mailing
list called faces which is um an online
space for women doing art gender and
Technology it's also 20 years old that's
so it's it's a long time
and uh that way we hosted some of the
early cyber feminist discussions again
it's something you know in the 90s it
was it was I think a reasonable response
to the kind of
uh I would say like eclectic and utopic
moments of early net Schult tour in
Europe I don't know like basically it's
something like CCC was happening but it
was in in communication with things like
trans medala or ARS Electronica and then
all kinds of alternative types of
Internet culture were building up not
only in Europe but in Canada something
like T I know I see some telec communist
here so yeah telec
communist so like you like
these that
uh that cyber feminism of the 9s in
Europe was really connected with like
other things going on but it was also I
think fulfilling a kind of role for a
need to have a feminist a visibly
feminist movement within this otherwise
like very male doin like very white male
dominated culture of it stuff which I
mean it's very present here I don't like
I don't think anybody would be shocked
if I say that so and so or is anyone
shocked so um yeah I'm still hoping that
Rama shows
up but um yeah so that's like there's
cyber feminism Xeno feminism has come up
in the last couple of years mainly it's
an international group mostly I think
it's it attempts to be an
interdisciplinary group I think they
have changed themselves from Collective
to working group and they try to combine
things like programming with uh
literature with Theory and then with a a
mathematics practice they're based in
London Australia and Berlin and
somewhere in Canada I
forget and like I think I think it's
sort of it's another Point of Departure
it borrows a lot from the Cyber feminism
on the cyborg ideas of herway the VNS
Matrix cyber feminist work and then the
other like obn work of the Cyber
feminist International so it it builds
on all of those things expands it
borrows a lot from science fiction and
refers a lot to people like writers like
Octavia Butler so those I kind of think
it's an an interesting alphabet and it's
a series of things that like when R and
I started talking these were the things
we were talking about is like what would
for her as a filmmaker based in Dar what
would those things sound like and then
of course in Dar today
something like cyber feminism or Xeno
feminism sounds quite interesting so
ideally we would have Annie go from
London who does a lot with sound and
cyber feminism or Alam Mitra fova who's
a feminist Russian philosopher who's I
think quite quite well known she's
extremely important in Russian um I
think intellectual and left circles like
for example she's a huge influence on
[ __ ] Riot and I do have to um like
always mention even when when we had the
when and I had the discussion about the
chance of her coming here she herself
thought it would be more important
for sorry my computer's actually with
Roma so it's anyhow I'm trying to
remember the woman's name do you know
the project s scub science Hub so scub
is a very important project that's
programmed by a young um she's based in
St
Petersburg a programmer who is coming
out of I think Kazakhstan does somebody
know someone say that like anyhow she's
she's basically created an online
database of medical if anybody knows
more please just feel free to correct me
I think it's like this is my one sort of
credit to to um Allah is that she's
really pushing this project siab because
we were sort of looking at what what
would be science uh current contemporary
techn feminist practices and the
generation of this Archive of medical
research and basically taking journals
that are usually very costly and only
available in rich countries or available
to people with access to uh expensive
private or academic medical journals
this woman has figured out a way to make
this database available to lots of
people for free I think at last count
she's been um convicted in US Courts for
copyright violations and she would be
immediately like imprisoned in the US
and with like she has fines I think up
to $2 million like yeah it's a 2 million
are
you yeah
Alexandra Alexandra yeah
Alexandra alakin yeah so anyhow that's I
I have to say this is something I I
really have to H mention that as often
as possible if anybody has any way to
help her or offer her $200 million $2
million yeah that would be fine so this
is I this is the frame of where Rama and
I are talking because it's it's going
back and forth through lots of different
like times and movements like political
movements social movements and it's
always it is always about access to
education access to health care and then
access to media and this is where we
would start to talk about what for and
that would go into Revolution and then
it gets important because not every like
we were talking last night just casually
that I know a lot of people here do very
important like um Technology based work
for change but as I think we all know
hacking has also got this um hobby
aspect to it so for a lot of people it's
it's a fun free time activity and there
is something where I think one I would
love to be able to live in a world where
in my free time I could just you know
fool around and it didn't matter like I
would love to live in a world where
there was no need for doing anything
important un like I would prefer to just
get drunk and dance all the time but the
like it's it's really we don't live in
times where that I do get drunk and
dance a lot every time chance I get
don't get me wrong but um we like there
things that are going on in the world
actually demand a kind of action and
because especially now it's so much uh
revolving around media and like really
basic things it's not just about how you
accumulate wealth it's what kinds of
things you can do with that wealth and
for most people on the planet it's
really access to very like basic things
and that's like Education and healthc
Care follow and the media is really
important and one thing is we were
looking at how then is something like
for example internet's super important
across like um okay of course we know
that in German living in Germany but in
different poor countries the like
internets and media play different roles
and for example we were talking about um
how micro financing and micro payments
via um mobile phones was something
developed by a a sagales programmer Rama
would tell me us the name and the longer
story about this if she were
here is she okay anyhow but something
like that that was developed in Kenya
and not because it was an app that
someone could sell or hang out and talk
about in any of the annoy cafes in
Berlin but because it was something that
would be useful for people to use and
like it's it's become a very highly used
um payment system in senagal and in
Gambia and that's something which is
like those are like little Innovations
and those are the models that sort of
start to translate out into other things
so we tend to often think of Africa's
being in need of
Technologies but we don't often like and
I and in this case I'm going to say we
as people in wealthy countries or in the
west don't tend to look at what types of
developments are happening there that
then infiltrate and infect what we are
doing and how we use technology and of
my my sort of favorite example is the
payment for um text messages on mobile
phones I think lots of people forget
that was a free
um it was a free forgotten feature of
mobile telephones when they first became
popular and that it was because of the
High use of text messaging in in
different African countries I think
primarily in Nigeria where telephone uh
mobile telephone operators what are they
there must be a better word for that
started to look at why they were selling
so many mobile phones and contracts and
no one like was using that very at that
time high cost telephoning networks and
when they looked into it they realized
there was a lot of data being exchange
but it was all going over text messaging
so that's when text messaging became a
service that you paid for for and not
just a kind of built-in like side like
forgotten feature I don't know if you
remember when text messaging was free I
do so that's something but that was that
like the reason we all pay for text
messaging now is because it was so
widely used and embraced across Africa
so you can blame Africa for paying for
your text
messages and these are things where it's
like how do I mean it's it's that might
seem like it's a very stupid and small
trivial thing but it points to how um
like the existing like technologies that
we use can be exploited and basically
those those exploits which are could be
called hacks are also based on what
people need and like their own realities
and those realities vary like no matter
like what kind of time we share they're
also the other conditions that we don't
share and then it's interesting to see
how we how things that come up in
different contexts can be shared across
those like different GEOS specific
political social
conditions
so I'm trying to stick to my script that
Rama and I had in spite of her not being
here with me ah I I hope that um Nora or
somebody can tell me when her film will
be screened tomorrow that's the
revolution will not be televised will be
screened tomorrow at sometime in this um
big Hall just over here to
the it's over there I guess
so you know we we were looking at okay
what what what are the Medias and then
like what could Revolution be why would
we do that and then why would different
media matter in that and one of the
things is um looking at film I had a
talk with an old buddy from Amsterdam
last night and we were talking like he
doesn't watch movies for him it's a
waste of time and entertainment and we
talked about how different types of
narratives can open up a mind space and
how those can be useful operators and
it's not just that they rely on techn
technology to be built I mean this is
something where if you look at how
people I mean there's a lot of like a
whole sort of new line of work in the
area of something called digital
storytelling I'm not particularly keen
on this particular term but it's
something where looking at how people
can
use new technologies to tell stories
right but what kind of stories do you
tell and what do they do and so for
example a film can do many things and
it's of course a film like Rama's film
or like the when I when I met her I was
I was screening spell reel which is
based on the the militant media of guine
basau it's a project by Philipa Cesar
and Sana and hadada and those are things
that get shown often in
museums um in very like film festivals
in very sort of high and like Arty farty
locations but they also get shown in
activist situations like cine migrant or
in different um public viewing
scenarios in any number of places across
like across guine basau across Gambia
and sagga so those are places these
films can be shown in all of those
places and they will resonate very
differently with all of those publics
and in order like creating a film that
can tell that can be coherent across all
of those spaces is not a small feat but
it's like something that those it can
activate different sets of knowledge and
I mean this I think it's fairly basic
but it's not
it's not unimportant to think about what
it means for somebody to enter into the
museum space I think somebody like Rama
who's one of the um very small number of
African women producers and like film
producers who is very comfortable
working with activists feminists across
you know where like South Africa senagal
Gambia and also being very active and
being able to inhabit the space of like
the Museum of Modern Art in New York and
have her work be shown there this is
something where it's it's a kind of
social hacking once she has The
credibility of being in a place like
Moma it gives her a credibility to raise
money to in order to do further work
that can then later be shown in other
completely different spaces I think it's
the same with Philipa Cesar and with s
and had even my work that The
credibility that you get due to some
kind of institutional support or
affiliation can be then uh transferred
into some kind of social power that can
be utilized elsewhere and I think those
are things that it's it's very basic but
I think people don't if you have a sort
of set if you have your own kind of
power ability to move ability to speak
ability to do things you often don't
think like no many people often don't
think about what that like how that's
generated or how that can be used so in
a way how that is a privilege and how it
could be used to ex like open up
privileges for other people so so this
is like in the end like this is how much
time wait just a second
yeah
I'm yeah okay
yeah yeah that's yeah that's I'm just
taking a quick a quick break wish I had
a song for
you
and the film The Revolution will not be
televised will be screened tomorrow in
the art and play area at 20 minutes past
midnight so you can come and have have a
look at the screening of of the film
tomorrow night at 20 12 in the art and
play
area we still have half an hour uh of
this presentation
and there are two microphones in the
room microphone number one and
microphone number two so when we have a
Q&A then you can stand up behind the
microphones and we can uh um give you
the word and and have a dialogue with
Diana and there will also be the
opportunity of having questions from the
Internet
thanks if anybody would like to come up
and sing a small song that would be very
welcome no this is yeah sorry I'm trying
to I'm doing my best to sort of out our
conversation the other thing that like
because this not like something like CCC
but like Rah and I were talking like
we've been we've been having a very long
ongoing discussion and our idea was just
to share that with you so anyhow I I'm
hoping that she's not totally lost and
or in trouble somewhere in liic so it's
a I believe her charger may have um
failed I believe her phone may uh be not
working but uh any case
the the question of something like
hacking that we were talking about what
like when we when we first met we were
talking about what it means to hack and
what it means to basically interspaces
where you're not allowed to be and like
what it means to then inhabit that space
what it means to use that ability to be
in that space in order to be then more
powerful in other spaces and I I hope
that's kind of clear I think it's it's
like I think everybody gets that but
it's like I don't I think it's easy to
take it for granted and it's easy to
take it for it's easy to not recogn that
not everybody has that ability to be
like not just Mobile in terms of
geography but in terms of social spaces
and how you're like what it means to
have a a voice and what it means to have
people listen to your voice so it's one
thing to be able to speak up it's
another thing to have people to have an
impact on what uh for people to listen
to and and it can be on a political
level social level whatever so and those
are things it's like I it's very basic
but it's like hacking systems is one one
of the things you do is open up doors to
make your like to make people heard and
this is very much in line with what CCC
is has been about I think from the very
beginning is creating like meaningful
forms of communication often exploiting
technology for that but I don't think
it's ever been only about the technology
like this is something it's very
important that it's not it's always been
rooted in something else which has much
more to do with how we live in a society
and so here we go with like that's where
R and I kind of agree because we've had
lots of I think very productive
disagreements on what hacking is or what
hacking could be and it is like one of
the things is like people playing around
and this this is going to happen
anywhere and nothing against people that
do make sort of entertainment-based
film music Etc that's not that's it's
not a complaint on that but it's
something that for those people that are
working actively to create like I think
or to activate social change not just as
activists but using different means to
create awareness to not not just educate
people but to get people I think to act
in unison with their Consciousness it's
it's so a word that I find very
difficult to say
conization and um I would ask francisa
but I think she's she's writing a Blog
this is the conization is like how do
you get people in touch with their own
like not their lived politics and get
people to realize how their daily life
is also politicized and that's something
where you understand that the basics
like your basic social position the
social infrastructures the economic
structures are part of a larger
political system and once you understand
how you operate within that you can then
act more effectively politically like
once you understand the politics of
every like how spaces relate I mean
going to school taking the bus going to
work all of those things what are the
politics that inform those things then
you can start to for example like
organize a union organize a political
movement but you can only do that when
you really understand like what are are
your basic conditions and how those can
be a springboard for bigger movements
and this is I think these are things
that are very like General but in common
across around places around the world
so nevertheless we live in a kind of
info bubble time when people have more
access to information they have more
like means media and so on but
nevertheless we like people could easily
get informed but facts mean less than
ever so this is like this is sort of I
guess ironic that in the moment when
people could potentially be better
informed when more people could be
better informed than ever because of
having access to useful and meaningful
information is exactly the moment when
the notion of the fact dies right and it
of course conveniently parallels the
rise of really hardcore right-wing
movements all over so Argentina turkey
yeah well I don't need to list them
right that's we all know that's Germany
so
so this is something where like how do
you get people to understand like to and
this is like it's like activating
different knowledge sets so
yeah and then that's like so I would
continue with Rama discussing what is
hacking what is it good for and what
would it mean like what would what would
it mean like oh how many of you guys
would like like go to senago and then
like how would you share stuff there
because then she's like yeah all the
computer freaks there would okay love to
come here and of course that would be uh
yeah I think it would be funny and weird
and useful probably probably not without
tensions
so I am going to I
think oh is that Rama
so I kind of
like I know it's early but I think I'm I
I think that's what I have to say about
this and like maybe if you have
questions comments if you have more
factoids to add I would be happy to
allow you to share the stage
complaints so as I mentioned before we
have two microphones we have microphone
one and two so if we have questions
comments um please join in in the
conversation so go go to the microphone
that's in the middle of the room or on
the side of the room and then it's
microphone number two in a couple of
seconds there you go microphone number
two
discussion uh big question but maybe
two things that interest me you
mentioned the lack of uh or the maybe
dominant people here how can we change
this do you can you share strategies how
do we change the white male uh age uh
audience in this kind of event and
second part I'm interested about the
Thematic about the colonizing technology
and I don't know maybe you can pick any
part of it that would fit to the
conversation thank you wow what the
that's great first of all I think we
like Nora badri and the CCC team I think
for many years has worked to try to make
a more inclusive space and I really
applaud them for that I have to really
thank Nora especially here so thank you
Nora for really working on this and
taking up this opportunity and also
hacking this space for that because I
think this is one of the first things is
recognizing um at what time what for any
kind of grouping or social formation
when it's homogeneous it tend to reflect
the interest of those groups and I like
I've known really wonderful people from
CCC for many years but like I think in
190 like
2001 like I know that when when did they
do the hexen thing when did this hexen
thing start like 2001
2002 and this was like I was in the room
when a bunch of guys decided to do that
and I sort of applauded the interest in
having a space for women but at that
point I was like I'm not interested in
being at that table because I want to
sit at the grown-up table which is
basically where the like basically I was
going to stay at the table where the
boys were and as like I do feminist
stuff but when I want my own room I'll
ask for it you know said loudly and so
on so this is one thing is like figuring
out things and and giving people like
people will make mistakes that's
something like when you talk about
inclusive
practices one thing is we were having
chats last night about like what would
it mean for my colleagues from We Are
Born Free empowerment radio in Berlin
for example who do work coming out of
Iranian plots which is a refugee
movement which was like the group that
started to break out of the um the
forced camps in in Germany and went and
occupied Iranian plots for example a lot
of the guys there speak woff a lot of
the like different people that are
active in that movement are coming out
of Gambia and
senagal coming to this event like for
even for Roma as like one African woman
it's like I we were sort of counting
last night it's it's not a whole lot of
black people here let's let's be honest
and to be able to occupy a space like
this may and maybe she got a little bit
I have to I'm not I don't want to speak
for maybe she got a little bit of stage
fright today so this is something like
actually we had lovely engaged
conversations with many people and
already some interesting unpleasant
experiences so which is going to happen
and she knew that like this is something
when she she's been she operates in
enough different situations to know that
coming to a space like this there might
be an unpleasant encounter
and so that's something which you know
that's that's that's a part of needing
to invite needing to have people that
are going to be able to inhabit this
kind of space have enough thick skin to
be able to deal with like let's say u a
different range of encounters and being
able to still have a voice there so
that's one thing once you start to
include like different uh like let's say
people working from different angles
because and it's it's not just about
like it's not about ethn differences or
racial differences it's about different
types of ways of Engagement but once you
start to mix up who is doing the um
talking and who is getting represented
that already is going to be a driving
force for a different kind of public and
that's going to inform then who comes in
the next like the next Generations and
this
is I I would have like I would have
shown you clips of we are born uh we are
born born in Flames Lizzie Borden's film
I have a a really crappy copy if you're
around later I can give you a copy she's
given me permission to do this the
director so it's a film from 83 which
basically shows a lot of how people um
work and do social Outreach I am going
to say like I will use reboot FM in
Berlin it's an artist run radio we say
free artist radio I'm very proud because
when we started in
um 2003 it's going to be like 15 years
old as an actual running radio in in
Berlin next year in like in three two
weeks I think um in any case what we
started doing was asking a bunch of
different people and because like in
that time I did a little bit of work
with groups like Kakak which was a a
group of different people in Germany
doing deconstruction of identity
politics and so asking like different
afro-german groups DJ collectives um art
groups activist groups asking them what
would they like out of a radio in order
to do radio and in order to listen to it
this was the first thing asking a whole
bunch of different people and this is
working along the lines of like
basically feminist organ organizing but
also like we developed a whole software
s Gus is a feminist technologist we used
a lot of the same models that they
actually did it in it impacted how a
software got developed just by asking
people lots of questions and then
building that into a structure so that's
something where doing Outreach but then
having a lot of different interests
represented in the the thing and on
different levels and that means like who
has a say who's rep like who gets
represented and who is spoken to because
those are these are things where it's
like once you start mixing that up
things get oh oh good thank you that's
what we also do in the radio I like the
silent 15 so anyhow that's I it's I
think there are a lot of different ways
to do that until today reboot has a
really very good mixed thing and we we
are going mixed across like for us that
diversity is not a term we use in the to
the extent we use it it means East West
German it means old young people it
means men women it means um DJs
musicians actors artists whatever so
that's like for us it's like we we use
that term then
to we we use that term to sort of
understand everything and not because
often like something like diversity or
inclusion assumes basically a dominant
culture perspective like and that
already is going to inform how people
um what is understood in terms of whose
need is fulfilled right like so one
thing is do you want to have people
meaningfully
engaging with those like working across
differences social political economic
Etc gender do you want to have
meaningful engagement or do you want to
have decoration because often diversity
is used to um Supply decoration and that
means minority people whatever like are
then
there to be counted and be
representative of some kind of
difference but not actually to have a
meaningful role or a meaningful stake in
anything and I think that's those are
like yeah those are processes and I I'm
I'm doing this sort of thing for a long
time and I really think it's it's work
it takes a lot of time and energy I
think the results are better so that's
know I think that that would be my long
and although I'm very enthusiastic about
that question because it's it's
something I think the result get better
and once we start like once we stop
looking at what makes us different and
start looking at what we have in common
that's I think then you have a really
potential to do more things and there's
there's like there are lots of things
that we can work with so yeah I loved
your term by the way I can please give
me your name later of decolonizing
technology I think that's a wonderful um
I didn't say that you did so thank you
for that and uh this is something I
think yeah h
I can only say thank you I think we
should it's like decolonizing technology
on all areas because it's for me the
technologies that we use media it's it's
really happening like looking at how
media like something like Facebook comes
out of its time it was always built to
um not just not just become a money
earner it was always meant to capitalize
on things it was it's built from the
ground up not just to gain your um
access to your information it's it's
meant to to use your like to in activate
you or the public to functionalize its
own your own personal relationships
basically to monetize your social your
friends family Etc into contacts and
understand that as an ACC accumulation
of wealth so that's that I'm sure that's
also reflected in the code but that's
that's why it's there it's meant it's
meant to encourage people to uh yeah
find like U monetize or no I had a
better turn I'm sorry anyhow it's it's
capitalize on your own like social
connections you with with people it's I
think it's it's kind of sick and I'm
sure that's also reflected in the code
so one thing is understanding like
what's what's on the layers that you
don't see that you use and I think
that's very important for programming
who uses it and what they use it for and
then what gets communicated and all of
those things are very important in terms
of understanding like what's what's
media so
that's but thanks I'm really happy can
you say your
name no just say it can you just
shout she said later yeah your name's
not just what or or okay so thank you so
yeah you get this is I'm sure there are
thousands of people listening on the
internets right now so that's yeah and
we have uh another question on
microphone number two thanks that will
be a bit of a chump but you mentioned s
feminism earlier and also in your title
and I'm trying to wrap my head around
this especially the cop feminist
Manifesto which is a quite decisive
criticism of many established feminist
practices especially those turning
towards representation of different
groups and so on so forth and rather
focuses on the body biohacking and all
that stuff so I would be really
curious to hear what you as a filmmaker
and radio person if I got that right
what you take out of the that movement
or how that inspires your
work thank you okay I am a radio like
whatever editor I only work with
filmmakers so I'm a cosmic adviser it
doesn't Inspire my work at all so I
think like it's my work has inspired
that stuff and I'm I don't want to be
like I'm not being like even arrogant
here it's absolutely clear like the Xeno
feminists are drawing on lots of things
like the kind of stuff I've been doing
with the internet for 20 years and many
other things so that's like to be clear
like many many other things so my like I
have had lots of heated debates for
example anigo um like Zeno
is it's a mathematical term but
nevertheless it it resonates it has like
for many people when they hear Zeno they
hear
xenophobia and for example only a group
of white women wouldn't hear that you
know like like consider and say we're
going to call something xenop feminism
and not hear
xenophobia and this is like I have to
say that yeah of course this is this is
one of the criticisms that comes out of
black feminists that are interested in
like Tech techn feminism or something
like that so
know I I think that they have drawn a
lot of things together the Xeno feminist
Manifesto is what is it it's can you get
can you what is the name of it the
actual name is like
uh hm what you ask the name the xenop
feminist Manifesto has it's like
hows a politics
for yeah thanks yeah this is yeah and I
think it's a I think it's a I think it's
a useful read I think it's inspiring and
interesting and I think it can because
one of the things it's it's it's denial
of basically it's a it's it has a
certain denial of identity politics in
it in like which I find a very difficult
term it has a denial in it of a fixed
notion of identity and that is a de
construction of identity politics
nevertheless it it's has many problems
in it so this is something but this
alienation and understanding alienation
as a positive space to work from so I
think it's something that it's useful to
read and it's useful to think about but
as a Manifesto I don't think it's it's
not offering anything like specific to
do but it's offering specific things to
think about that should be hopefully a
springboard to understanding like how um
yeah something like gender how gender
race and class play get played in and
out of like play in and out of and off
of technology so
that's but I I I I also just think it's
a it's a kind of cool word like it's I
think it's by the way this is blatantly
we use
it we use it for we've done a whole
series of talks and we use it because
it's a way of locating something like a
25 30y year uh techn feminist idea range
and it's if you go cyber feminism to
Xeno feminism it's it's a we like when I
say we faces different colleagues we've
done an anec anecdota alphabet of like
feminist alphabet of um Media stuff like
that so it's playing with how you work
with linearity and techn like linearity
so that's it's a it's also a cheap way
to uh advertise
something do we have any more questions
we still have about 8 seven minutes
before we need to wrap
up are there any questions from the
inset signal Ang
nope well I think it's been very
inspiring and great there's one yay come
up to the
microphone microphone number
two hi I just want to thank you for a
really amazing U inspiration especially
having come from hamaha forest where we
experienced third largest police action
in the history of Germany and the
largest in the history of norwine Walia
and after being evicted from 11 Forest
occupation 6 treeh houses we experienced
an incredible flow of uh outpouring of
support a 50,000 demo and reoccupation
of the forest and regardless The
Narrative of cases like this is so Min
minimal in the mainstream media that's
what really recharged us was the
phenomenal amount of uh activists U
documentarians and filmmakers who have
come to the forest who've explored the
narrative especially from the anarco
feminist perspective which is one of our
foundation of our struggle and I wanted
to ask you how could we actually reach
out to more people from the artist
Community from the polit uh uh political
uh documentarian community and bring him
and invite him to the struggle and
speaking of which I would also like to
invite you as well to come and visit us
in the forest as well thank
you yeah Bravo yeah okay sure I'm there
like yeah actually like a group of us
would like to visit you anyway so that's
uh yeah we like I mean time like like
time is time you know it's like where do
you where are you able to focus on
things but actually there there's what I
think is interesting about those things
is like figuring out like building up I
hate the term networking but I think
it's very important to build up
coalitions and alliances and look for
people with shared interests and out of
that you you like it's it's very much
it's like there is no sort of local
Regional issue that doesn't have a kind
of mirror somewhere else and it is very
important to build up alliances and
share information and out of that gain
strength but you know that's and I don't
know use the internet I I you know it's
great send people emails and ask them to
do that open calls that's that's what I
would suggest and of course why not uh
find your local smallest radio and
broadcast
so are there anybody hiding in their
seats with a burning question please get
up to the microphones so that everybody
can hear your
questions okay I'm I'm going to say just
like since since I'm just here now and
like I believe I hope I really hope Rama
is fine like that's something um I do
run a small mailing list for women in
media and this is one of the things that
uh like please do if you're interested
it's called faces minus l.net that used
to stand for like list so it's still so
that's why the URL is like that you
shoot us an email we do we do check who
you are so like like it's it's for women
uh it's always been since day one it's
been open to trans women but basically
women who identify like people who
identify as women and live that it's
been up for uh discussion several times
over the last 20 years it's not a it's
not a um how can I say it's not a huge
list like maybe 400 people there's
another 400 in the larger Community but
it's a place where people can share
information about their work and this is
for example like one of the things we do
is just to build up a a a a place where
we can find each other like there will
be a little faces Gathering I think
tomorrow around lunchtime I guess that's
at 5:00 here right so somewhere around
so if you if you're interested in
getting in contact with more women and
finding out about what women are doing
with art gender and Technology faces is
a good place but of course I I also want
to say it was never ever formed or
founded with the notion that we would
stay there so it's a place where we we
can share information Exchange amongst
the women the ladies the girls whatevers
but it's never um with the idea that
that's where we would stay so it's one
of the things you do in order to have
that place and then go out and be you
know whatever stronger louder angrier
funnier in the world so anybody
interested in that please join in we
have a question for microphone number
two hello hello uh I'm one of the
translators of the C feminist Manifesto
into Spanish and I actually work with
Luca Fraser who's one of the members of
the Collective I was wondering in your
perspective um what kind of Technologies
do you see or strategies do you see
forming that Advance a senior
feminist uh program or strategy any kind
of te new technologies we should be
looking out forward
to no I actually like I actually think
that the I mean that would be that the
the best technology that the Zeno
feminist Manifesto inspires people to
use is the one in your brain like that's
that's actually what I think it's a I
think it's very effective for getting
people to think a little bit differently
about things and that's I think in spite
of the interdisciplinarity of the group
they're not high they're not really into
technology you know they're not they're
not programmers on the like they're not
deeply embedded in any kind of
technological movement I don't think it
matters I think the ideas that are the
questions that it raises could be
practiced in different ways and how we
work with technology and I think that
that would be the interesting thing to
do I guess it's at that point but
actually one of the members do work in
artificial intelligence and uh return
oriented programming so I do think that
they're they're embedded in technology
so yeah yeah but I mean nothing I don't
want to argue with you about this but
the group itself is not like they're
really not they're like the group itself
doesn't there is no techn there is no
feminist techn technological practice
and that's that's what I mean so uh
there
is it's a computer scientist and CA yeah
but then you you maybe you want to name
a a practice that would be a Xeno
feminist practice sure genom editing
chrisper um Elizabeth Prado maybe edit
self-editing in terms of uh body
mechanics but that's okay if you if you
call if you want to call those Xeno
feminist
practices that's I wouldn't I wouldn't
so okay cool
that's I wouldn't sue you for it either
good I think we have about one minute
left so let's give Diana McCarthy a big
round of applause for incredible
presentation and
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talk
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