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SGI 0, which is
the next generation Internet.
A treasure trove of a T innovation.
A speaker will be Mikheil
Li Na's.
He is.
He used to work for the Netherlands
Science Foundation for the Internet
Society.
He is a W3 C
liaison officer and
he wants to keep pushing the innovation
of the Internet and move it into the next
generation.
Please welcome him on stage.
So I'm really happy that
all of you came out here on the fourth
day, because I understand
after all these long nights, this is
this is pushing it so
so a quick
trip back in time.
So this this room is named after
a guy called Edgar Dykstra, who 60 years
ago published a policy speech.
He was a foundational guy in computer
science. And he did this work,
the seminal work in this dude called CWA
or at the time multiparty sent in
the Netherlands.
And I mean, the Association of Computing
Machinery said that no other individual
has had a larger influence on researching
principles of distributed computing.
So 30 years
ago, the organization where I work
was founded.
We became a foundation.
But before that, we operated
for seven years at C.W.
Y in the Netherlands at the same place.
So these these people were really forward
looking and this is what it looked like.
So people
with long beards, big computers.
They just brought Unix to Europe and
they were playing with it.
And a network of hackers and
volunteers basically hacked
their way to to to to
what later became European Internet.
Now, at that time, just appreciate how
early that was.
The Web was still a proposal.
It was still something that the manager
of Timber Annesley at at CERN called a
fake, but interesting.
And they gave him nine months of micro
grants to to work on it.
And obviously that the ideas at the time
were that that I mean, this is a
representative quote, if you think
surfing hypertext is cool.
That's because you haven't tried writing.
It was very much the idea that we could
make everything.
And obviously, that's not the future that
we got.
Tim earnestly himself when he got there,
the Turing Award and he said,
which is that the like the Nobel Prize of
computer science, he
said from utopia to dystopia
in just twenty nine short years.
I mean, it's it's gone by amazingly
fast. But
if you read.
The optimism turned into despair.
Where were the guy who
invented the Web says.
This is a large scale emergent anti
human phenomenon.
That's for an optimist.
That is a those those are words that
that go to the heart and thanks to
the famously has said,
well. People don't need to remember
much of what I did.
Only that he would
appear as some side a sort of a
conscience of the sector.
So that ten years after his death, if
somebody would say dikes, I would have
not would have not like this.
That was the kind of idea that he wanted
to exert to to to teach people how
to how to be good.
Computer scientists.
So we are in this broken situation, so
where do where do we go?
Well, quickly rewind back
to 1997, because the the
the people that that funded
founded the Internet in the in Europe
actually were not professional business
people. They were outsiders to industry.
So they sold everything, put it into a
trust fund and.
Basically, they gave it to the Internet,
and that's the reason I'm here.
The mechanism that we use this is micro
grants. We give small amounts of people
to two in it to independent people and
allowed them to work for the Internet,
to work in the public interest.
And it's always open standards, open
source, open hardware.
So these are some of the projects
that we funded throughout the years.
You may or may not know some of them,
but but it's it's a pretty nice
a pretty nice list.
And this is by far not all of it, because
many project don't even have a logo,
because that's the kind of
early work that that was funded.
Obviously, spending money is a is can be
a bit of a problem if you don't have
infinite amounts.
So. So that's a challenge for us because
we started giving away money and it
wasn't that much to begin with.
So luckily
we're seeing people pick it up and, uh,
some of the people that receive grants
later make some money and they start
giving those races. There's a company,
security company radically open security
where the employees collectively decided
that they wanted to give all of the
profits. Pretty much all the profit to
us, at least 90 percent.
But so far, that's been an amazing
thing. And obviously, that's a sustained
potentially can become a sustainable
thing. So
luckily, two years ago, we ran into
something called the Next Generation
Internet Initiative.
And that was a major windfall for us
because so far
public money on the Internet
was kind of wasted in
all senses of the word.
People would just write reports and then
fake projects would happen.
So we we were early on, we we
helped to do this study
where we established a vision for this
whole initiative.
And interestingly enough, we published
that last year when we saw the topics of
of this conference.
We we hit two out of three in that
report from last year.
So we we also had resilience.
We also had sustainability, but we added
trustworthiness that stayed the
the layer that we we wanted to have.
And so we defined those
that the higher level goals of the
program. And then immediately after that,
the commission started handing out money.
And obviously we were very lucky
were consider ourselves to be
extremely blessed that that we got this
to of two of these programs,
because that will allow us not to write
paper, but to actually support people.
And we brought a number of folks along
to to help us do that.
I'm not gonna read them out all because
you can look that up.
But the reason I'm here is to talk about
some of these amazing things, because
they're they're all small projects.
And they. But but but.
Well, I guess we could fill a conference
there somehow. Hundred to twenty taxes at
this at this event.
We have 150 projects.
I'm gonna do a quick
version of them or attempt
to do a quick version of them in the
next, uh, in the next
half hour.
So
we have two programs.
One of them is called Private Entrusting
Arts Technology, and the other one is
called a search discovering discover
ability. And with that, you can actually
cover a lot of these grounds.
So
an apology of front.
I know there's people in the room and I
won't mention their project because I
have too many projects to mention and
it's just too complex to to do that.
And half an hour, I have
something like 15 seconds per project, so
that would not make a lot of sense.
And so if you know the project, like why
garden, then, you
know, you'd be happy that we support it,
but you don't need to detail it.
So let me begin with Activity Pub.
So I'm going from the from the from the
from the bottom up to end
that the more fundamental metal layer.
So to say the
activity pub is something that is
it is a social networking protocol and
you may have seen it emerge
in different places.
And the cool thing is, because of the
money that we now have, we can actually
support all these smaller projects.
So Pixel Fed, which
is trying to do to
provide a sane alternative to, uh,
to photo sharing.
So the stuff that people do with
Facebook and with Instagram,
a funk. Well, is a personal music
server sprightly is a more
ambitious overall social network.
Project X Weeki is it is a
well-known wiki and it's going to be
added to the Fed offers.
Opening in Gardena, is
it trying to connect
hyper local events so so
local music chapels,
concerts in the in the in
the library.
Small events and then make sure that all
this stuff isn't aggregated on a Facebook
or meetup that actually comes and stays
on the Web that people can actually get
these these events integrated.
This course you may know as a as a a
community platform.
And it's also being active activity
per base. So to say Libra
Past is trying to create
an alternative to
tools like Twitch.
By enabling multicast live streaming
front from just a simple
device, the
The Picture Project, we aren't supporting
them directly but would support
supporting what will likely be the
largest deployment with over a
I don't know how many million hours
of content that they will put on
building lights, the national
multimedia archive of the Netherlands.
And they will stress that testis and add
all kinds of cool stuff about copyright,
open global content licenses,
subtitle search and so on.
Force Fed is a project
that rose from the
sale of of GitHub to
I.
Well, it's it's sparked by a bi
by the sale of get up to Microsoft.
But in general, the idea is that people
should be able to host their own software
and host their own issue trackers
and then to separate these, because
ultimately it's just a Web site.
So why can't we have these integrated
set of her spaces, is trying to map
out the whole set offers and
we'll make it possible for you to have a
look and see where you where you fit.
If you don't want to host yourself
because, well, like in the real world
desert type, there's
room for pubs, there's rooms for hotels
and there's rooms for people's own house.
And if a Fed offers
the same holds.
So for search.
I guess one of the founding projects is
circus.
I don't know if people have used that,
but it's it's a method search engine and
it's trying to add the one
thing that Google will never be able to
do is to have private,
private resources that can stay private
and have to be integrated into
the single search box that we all use all
day because we're lazy people.
We don't want 20 search boxes, we
only want one so that if you want
to have alternatives, that we need to be
able to to provide these these private
search domains. So one of those domains
is mail pile, quite a well-known
mail server.
And next cloud is another one that is
going to add with budget from us.
This is private integration
with WebEx Rep.
Paul Mees. Here is
a project that is going to help you
understand where you're searching
to not just click on the blue link and
then find out that there's a gazillion
trackers that are going to kick your ass
there, but actually show you up front,
because that's the kind of knowledge that
they're bringing together with the Web x
ray project.
So you have a better understanding of
what traps lie behind the link, so to
say.
And the Green Web Foundation is
on a similar note.
It wants to reward people
that do good in terms of carbon
offsetting. So when people
host a website with a green in a green
data center, you can say, well, I'm
gonna have 60 million results.
You're gonna show me 10 might not show me
10 that are hosted green.
And then you create an incentive for
companies to
to do the right thing.
And obviously, there's all kinds of
cool new technologies on the planet.
So such as the interplanetary fall
system, which we are supporting
with a search project.
The DOT's Foundation is
trying to get to the death
protocol into the private sphere so you
can host your own dot spaces
and
building a tool to to make those private
repositories available to
sonar as a search engine that will look
into those.
It's a German project that is looking
into those that spaces.
So that will be an ideal combination
of public and private resources again.
And then there's an upcoming browser
called Next and they're trying to
create they're not
satisfied with the state of the art in
terms of browsers where
it's just pointing click and
you all you can use weight for.
The thing to do to be more programmatic
should be more programable.
And on top of that, they're going to be
able to work with both that
IP address and zero net.
And then there's more
cool search stuff for for poor private
communities like. Like that transparency
tool kit, like Mine Dove,
which is a sort of a mixer that
allows you to to to mix search results
from other people.
Basically an overlay network just before
the search engine kicks in.
So your queries
end up with other people and are relayed
without you being able to see them.
And without them being able to see them
and you relay other people's queries in
that way, you confuse the eyes
and get a privacy conscious,
distributed search
technology, open food
facts. This is
an amazing library of something like
650000 thousand foods
that that you can look into.
And obviously those foods are
all the things that you want to know
about allergies, about maybe
ethical things or about where
they come from.
All these things will be combined in a in
a in a personalized search environment
that you can use.
And Yahtzee, which is a well-known
peer to peer search project for a long
time, is going to build
capacity for people to actually set up an
instant search shop
where you can where you can index stuff
for people if you don't have the
knowledge and including
the whole fulfillment so as to create
an army of search providers.
And then the next next hour, folks
who created previously the Flex Search
Project, which is quite a well-known
project, they're now trying to create
a search
engine mechanism that doesn't just favor
the biggest bookstore from Washington
all the time.
So they will experiment with new ranking
algorithms.
Applications.
We have plenty to San Francisco.
Silk Server is not a really well-known
project just yet, but we think it should
be because it's an open source
conferencing conferencing server,
just like the ones that people use from
the big vendors.
But it actually it's very much standards
driven. So it can use XP, it can use SIP.
And if you use Web RTC and
it's encrypted, it has in session
uploads, it can do a screen sharing
and chat.
And in general, it's it's a cool thing.
And to N Sync is a is a protocol.
Well, that starts with the basic premise
that if you are
using a cloud holster to
put your calendar and your
your address book in, why should they be
able to read what you put in?
Why can't you just lock the black book
before you send it there and get it to
sync? Is is just doing that
and it has applications for all the
larger platforms.
If you're involved, one of the smaller
platforms like sailfish
or else approach us and maybe
we're able to fund YouTube because we
love the smaller platforms, you'll see
a clip that is
after
we all started using ether
pad.
We we did realize that
that ended up with clear text on the
other end.
So crit that is doing a wonderful thing
where they encrypt all the data client
side gives you
a collaborative editing on spreadsheets,
on text documents.
I'm pulling on all kinds of things,
but the server is blind.
It cannot see anything.
Everything is is
client side encrypted.
We also have a lot of cool fundamental
stuff.
So for is Farish Powell
is made by a
Nadeem Kobayashi.
He's he's in the room.
So he's the creator of Noise Explorer.
And first Pal is actually
the tool that should has, as
I think, the biggest chance of making
symbolic verification palatable
for normal people, because
we all understand that computers are
really good at seeing the flaws in our
thinking.
So, for instance, this is how
Nadeem uncovered some
holes in
proton mail and
nicely reported them.
But it's it's this is all of it.
If you if you know anything about this
kind of proof, if you read the the the
the manual, you'll be able to write this,
which is which is pretty amazing.
So Rio is a
is trying to to get rid of the
shock mechanism that we inherited
from the very earliest BSD, which sucks,
is you open something and
everything can start using
it as soon as they are your user.
So it's it's it's not good
and real wealth from actually
the center of mathematics and
mathematics, mathematics since come in in
the Netherlands or the FBI as it these
days called there.
They I think they introduced Unix to
Europe and now they want to repair that
flaw.
Oh, Parks thinks A is a
project driven very much by
Hungarian cryptographers and developers.
And what they want to do is
we still have passwords and it's
still a need mechanism.
But passwords shouldn't ever be
on the wire.
And they are still. So
by implementing both the password store
on the device that is is is
so good that you don't have to trust the
server on the one hand
so you can use a separate password
server. And on the other hand,
you have protocols
that unlock those
passwords for you, but they never get
stored at the other end.
So you create a system
where you have the the
benefits of something simple as passwords
without the negatives
and or Sphinx projects is creating apps
for it to go with. That Agnew mess
is trying to solve another problem.
If you if you're developing an operating
system, you will have to accept that
you can't just write code and then
compiling. Because what do you compile it
with? You will have to take on something,
what they call a binary seed, which
is something that has been going
on, passed on like a
like a KFC or plant from
from one computer to another.
And you don't really know what's inside.
So what new message trying to do is
replacing it all with a legible scheme
based bootstrapping system
and also reducing
with a factor the dependency
that we bring in.
Rover is a
developing robust
DHB C.P.
server and DNS resolve or
as a unique kernel.
I think there are also people from Rover
in the in the room
perhaps.
And the HP canon is trying
to implement something called the HP
Anonymity Profiles, which is a new
Internet standard that not a lot of
people are using.
But it gives you when you when
your computer enters a network, it gives
you just a little bit extra of
privacy.
The ARPA to project is a cluster of
projects and it's
probably not everybody gets excited about
middleware. But if you think about it,
middleware is what's running pretty much
every company on the planet.
And we don't have it on Internet at
Internet wide scale.
So what what they're trying to do is
actually quite fundamental.
For instance, doing
getting Curb, which is still in every
organization on the planet,
is using two to make that
federate table and to
to improve the security characteristics,
to integrate Sasol and
realm cross over, to
provide all kinds of filters to to all
that. So you can have
other people share bits of all that.
And and yet
keep some privacy there to
to to propagate
system settings.
So that, for instance, when
you don't have to ping, say, Google,
which Web sites you don't trust, but
you can collectively
combine resources yourself.
And of course, to make everything
that has a user not have to have
a user database, because that is just a
stupid way of working.
And then to to to have access
control that is actually clever and
understands that you may want to not give
out your real name or your
read your real identity to just
anybody else so you can give out
pseudonyms but still have access control
on those.
Autocrat is a is a is a
a male specification.
We've had open TGP for
a long time.
It didn't get traction beyond the few
million people. We have a few billion
people on the Internet.
So we need to reinvent the protocol.
And that's what Art Crypto is doing.
We're funding a number of smaller
projects around that to make sure that
this this specification, which is already
supported by many others, is
getting this critical uptake.
Identity based encryption and
regional attributes are two projects that
are independent. But when they are
combined, have a beautiful
synergistic value because
I reveal my attributes as is something
where you can prove to somebody that, for
instance, you're 18 years old or to prove
that you're German or to prove that you
you have a dog and you paid your license,
but nothing else. So you don't have to
give your name. You don't have to show
your passport that has your photo on it,
that has all these other
things about you, including
biomedical details, but just that
single attribute. You can take it out
of the context so you can.
This is something you can carry along.
You prove it once and then a year later
you can prove it, which is
is very different from this.
This real world checking
that all the background to
identity management, the perpetrators
are using an identity based
encryption is really cool because
it allows you to encrypt stuff the first
time before you meet people.
And then there is a secure mechanism for
people to resolve this.
And this will be combined with this
attribute mechanism.
So you can say the person with passport
X, if you would know their passport
can can open this email and nobody else
can.
And the encryption behind
that would be automatically taken off by
very good cryptographers.
We have a few mobile operating systems,
small operators. We love independent
mobile operating systems.
So Replicant is
trying to get a fully free Android
distribution.
Mimo Lester is trying to revive
the the memo ecosystem
that was well, that the legacy of the
Nokia phones and trying to get that user
experience into modern phones,
the mega 65.
I mean, if he thought that that Nokia was
sentimental, then the mega 65 maturely
B, be rocking your world because that's
going back to the Commodore 65
and they want to create it.
There was actually a talk here at bay
by Paul Gartner, Steven.
They want to create a phone that is
simple enough for people to actually
understand because nobody can understand
these these other phones, but they
used to be simple.
So why can't we just have devices that
do, though, those things
on the other end of the spectrum?
Completely looking forward stuff
is mobile. Makes us.
I don't know if people know the nexus
ecosystem, but. But Nick says it is an
amazing, amazing next generation package
manager.
And if
they can support it, then you
can unlock about 50000 packages
at Nick's also supporting
on those devices.
We have a lot of open hardware projects,
too. So, for instance, the nitro key used
to be the crypto stick.
It's an open hardware use be key.
We have an open hardware laptop which
is going to either based itself on either
risk five or open power.
And it wants to be secure,
fast, inexpensive, open, robust,
agreeable and sustainable and not
compromised on any of that.
We have to be trust device.
So there was a talk about this from from
Bunny at the conference.
So. So you've seen that we have a
project that's trying to get
a system on CHIP.
So basically, what that just like the
Raspberry Pi is a system on Chip.
You want to have something that is
that gets IV
and or open power,
actually, that that is fully,
completely open, including the GP.
You including everything.
Wishbone is a specification
inside those devices, inside
the system on CHIP.
You need that kind of a system.
But there's only proprietary systems.
They may be free to use, but you can't
change them. You can't modify them
or actually
look very well at the security or
characteristics.
So we have a project that is trying to
add streaming to this wishbone
specification.
We have a project that is wants
to develop ASIC production flows,
so. So really make it possible for normal
people that that
are not willing to sign three levels of
indie s to
to produce a bit of hardware that they
design themselves.
And I guess not a project very much in
that same vein is called the Silicon.
You have a number of projects from from
that community.
Many of them are
actually linked to Germany.
But it's a it's a global effort
to make truly custom design
period, and to to own
all the all the the whole stack.
Because if you design a chipset now,
what you do is you go to a vendor and
that vendor will tell you,
just give me the recipe, OK?
OK, I'll put in my own stuff so
you can say tomato soup and it will make
it will give you tomato soup, but you
don't know what they put it
in in terms of silicon then.
Including a standard library, including
a place or a router.
And just to not be caught on a single
on a single project, the lead
to project is.
We're also funding them.
They have an alternative.
You feel as a backend tool.
And they can also do placing a routing.
And we don't want to be stuck with a
single tool. Instead, we want to have
multiple good tools.
Each do new things now
and to come back to the pillars that I
previously sketch for the next
generation. And I said we we will go for
resilience, trustworthiness and
sustainability.
And when we when we wrote that, we
actually said in the inefficient
technologies embedded in concrete,
circling in space and is increasingly
entering the intimacy of our human
bodies, little that we know
that somebody would propose to actually
make a pacemaker or find somebody crazy
enough to actually a patient that needs
it to actually consider
putting that in their body.
But if you've seen the talk from
us, Anderson, there have been hundreds of
pacemakers recalled because
of leaky networking capabilities.
So it's certainly not a
trivial thing to do it, but it's really
cool. And it shows the importance of,
well, getting this this this this whole
mechanism. Right, because you can't have
those risks. If you put something in
somebody's heart, you have to rip it out
and replace it with something that's not
a free like throw away
my phone because it
broken. No, you can't do that.
It requires every operation could could
kill people.
So we have a lot more projects.
I mean, this is just a tip of the
iceberg. That's why I call it a treasure
trove.
You can find all of them online.
We have them at these these Web
sites.
And if you see those two logos anymore
where that's.
Well, we hope that people recognize
that as a hallmark of quality.
We.
Nothing. They don't need to know our
names just to have the association.
Ah, shit. Interesting. Should look at
that.
Well, my time is almost
running out, so I want to give a big
thanks to the European Commission,
especially to the DG Connect that that
gave us this money to do this
without their support.
Now we might not even exist
at this point.
And the thing to remember
is all these projects need help.
They're not done
a done deal. This is not a product that
we're that where we
can give. We don't have the money to fund
all these projects to the level
where they need that they need.
So it needs uptake.
So fixing the Internet is a huge
collaborative thing.
And we we need all your brains.
Because the brains are the critical thing
here.
To quote Dykstra again, the art of
programing is the art of organizing
complexity, and there's a lot of
complexity to deal with because you have
so many dependencies and so many layers
of the system as you as you've seen, we
try to bring together these things
and and make them work together.
And that's the kind of a value add that
we try to give us as a funding agency.
But it's it's.
We need your brains and there's so much
work to be to be done on all layers.
If you are a legal person or if you're a
usability expert or a designer,
you've seen some of the logos.
They're ghastly.
Some people don't have logos.
Some people don't have any idea how to
organize a community.
So if you would want to
do something cool
and basically
there are so many opportunities on so
many different layers, you can do
internships if you're a student or
unemployed or but there's also some very
senior tasks that are that people
have lying about for which they don't
have the capacity to do because
they might be working for a nuclear
agency and have a good idea.
So it's not like they can then quit their
jobs and tell the family, I'm going to to
do this full time so people
can sometimes take money and
look for other people to to work with
them. So if you have an interesting one
of the project showed or one of the
project on the website, please look at
them. Perhaps.
Well, maybe next year you will be here
on the stage.
The last thing I want to say is if you
have a great idea, if you know somebody
else that has a cool project.
We still have money for the next year.
Have a look at your open calls.
Go to this to this address.
And I mean that that's the moniker is
that we want to reinvent the Internet
because we believe that
there's only so much
time before it's fossilized us and it's
so stuck in everything that is ossified.
So if you don't change it now, we will be
stuck with it perhaps for a thousand
years. And it's sad, but
for us with the phone system, we got
stuck with something for 100, 150
years almost.
So it's the
amount of devices that we're putting out
and how much technology that we're
depending on stuff makes it more
difficult to switch. So if we don't
switch it now,
we are there's no way we
can we can repair it later on.
And while the final quote from
Scott likes the tools that we use have a
profound and devious influence on our
thinking habits and therefore our
thinking abilities.
The way currently the Internet works is
bad. It's broken by design.
And I mean, there have been many talks
about this, but we need to do something.
And we we tried to bring together so many
efforts.
We're not alone. There are other people
inside the next generation Internet
initiative that are doing stuff
as well.
They have different methods.
They have different looks and feels.
So you can you can check them out
in particular before January 4th.
You can help the folks at dropsy.
They're a marketing agency
and other agencies that aren't
that first in understanding what
needs to happen.
And they're asking literally, can you
help us to tell who we should be giving
money to, what kind of things we should
prioritize?
If you have time, please look at that.
That that your eye and and fill
out the that that that that thing
and that some for questions.
OK.
Questions. There are
three microphones, but I see
the signal Angel already has
two questions from the Internet.
Let's take the first Internet question.
Should be on. Okay.
The first question from the Internet is
how to make the public
mass twins sport adopt those
great projects and how
well did you in the past?
So in the past, we
were kind of content that we were funding
all these amazing projects and we were
trying to get them to to
to to scale
technically.
For now, we've actually changed
our ways slightly.
And so one of the things that we do is we
try to package everything inside
at least one operating system called Nix
Nix packages inside one packaging
system. We help people with accessibility
is every project that we fund is getting
fitted for accessibility and will be
officially certified as that.
So that removes the number of blockers
in terms of practical adoption, for
instance, by governments because they're
not allowed to use technologies that
aren't accessible.
We help people build up communities
who have special community folks that
are good at community building.
So for us, this this the
abundance of funding
that we had for it for this short period
of this project is actually we're trying
to make the very, very most of that.
And well, it's not
been tried like that before, so
we'd like to give it a try.
And also, of course, very much talking
to the people that need to adopt it.
So if you develop something that is that
is changing the routing
of the Internet, then you need
to talk to the people that run the
Internet. So the technical operational
community. So we're very much.
We have people that help with
standardization, really, really good
people that
know how to pass the mustard
around, so to say.
And yeah,
if people have any advice on how to do
any better, we'd love to know.
So my email address is
he let an dot an L just sent me a mail.
If you think we're doing something stupid
or really think we're not doing anything
that we should be doing,
by all means contact us because we're
there to make it actually work.
Does that answer the question?
Internet
no feedback so far, but I hope so.
Well, there are no questions
in the room yet, so we'll take
the next one from the.
Oh, there's one over there.
Sorry.
All right.
Are you able to talk about the size
of the grant that was allocated to no
net in order to shore?
Sure. The average cell.
So the the the average sum
is something like thirty six thirty seven
thousand euros. The total sum is
eleven point two million euros for three
years.
That's from both projects combined.
So each of them five point six million
euros. So we currently have under 50
programs running.
So you can do the math and see that we
still have money left, but a year
from now that might be very different.
And then you'll have to talk completely
different shop because the way we do
this is not common.
I work we're quite proud that we think we
kind of hacked the system into making
it a very easy
application procedure. You should be able
to write this in half an hour.
If your ideas are are clear your
mind, then we
don't ask a lot of information.
That's exactly what we're trying to
to to do to solve this, to make it
lightweight for the people that apply.
And the amounts can be.
I mean, the smallest project we have is
fourteen hundred euros.
The biggest project has
now received a second grant
and will ultimately end up with something
like 70.
But it can theoretically can go up to two
and a thousand euros can be individuals,
can be organizations, can be a monastery,
can be a government, can be anything.
We don't care as long as you make
something and we pay you when you make it
and not before.
Thank you.
And now with the second question
from the Internet.
Second question from the Internet is, are
there any existing projects
that you wish would join
your initiative but haven't
so far?
That's a good question.
Uh.
Well, I recently reached out to,
uh, to, uh, to a number of
the smaller operating systems such as
Sailfish and Mannix.
Uh.
And I believe that they have some unique
properties and we want to support
their work. But so far, not a lot of
people from that community are.
I guess they're not used to being able to
get money for the work that they do.
But, uh.
Yeah. And in general, uh,
the the the independent mobile operating
systems.
Uh, that's
the thing that we're very interested to
see improve.
But yeah. And
we are quite forward.
As soon as we see something, we also
think people.
And then.
Well, one of the biggest way in which
we retrieve a good get projects
incoming is that people
know good people.
So people read about
just a day. They see the little logo a
few times. And I think somebody might be
crazy enough to fund my project
or they might be crazy enough to fund my
friends project.
And that's that's the only we don't have
any marketing budget.
So it's really word of mouth.
But in general, when we see stuff, people
are quite willing to
to push new projects to
us because, well, like I explained, it's
quite clear there's no
there's no spooks behind us.
It's all full in the clear public
benefit organization.
So essentially there's that
we don't have a threat.
We just give you money for the good of
the society citizen.
So I'm not answering the question,
unfortunately, but
thank you here for your talk and
for the questions.
Unfortunately, we run out of time.
I'm sure you can reach him
on the Congress if he's still asking
around and discuss
the topics further.
If you have to leave now, please
leave in that direction.
But first, give him some warm applause.
Applause.