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[Music]
um
Hello nice to see you all
again in this uh sun coming from the
rear grilling everybody uh please still
remember drink more water and keep the
walkways free as we talked so much
already uh due to the power failure
sadly neither on the stream nor in the
recording um I without further Ado um
give it to Gabriela uh baa Coleman and
to Jeremy Hammond to uh talk uh about
activ
great thanks so
much all right so I'll be
contextualizing the hack and leak no
surprise um so I have a very specific
definition for the hack and leak so it's
a tactic executed by hacker Outsiders
who hack deliberately into some or
server place to snatch documents and
material they publicize the intrusion
that's really important and stolen
material to drum up interest in the
leaks it was initially used mainly for
whistleblowing but is now also used by
different actors like nation states for
different purposes I'll be concentrating
more on this sort of activist tactic
today it's really a firm part of the
hactivist landscape um guacamaya if you
have not heard of them are rock and the
hack and leak in Latin America they
hacked the Mexican military for example
and really since 2011 and 12 you really
just have a tremendous amount of sort of
hactivist activity with this very
deliberate tactic as I sort of mentioned
um after our technical snafu this was so
not obvious to put together the
chocolate hack and the peanut butter
leak and put them together and in fact
one of the fascinating things was that I
interviewed for a very different project
a lot of hackers who were like poning
and owning systems in the '90s and 2000s
um and many were not ideologically
inclined to do hactivism but some
certainly were and there were a lot of
hacktivists doing also website
defacements and one hacker actually from
Europe during an interview said I wish
we had done something about it but we
didn't I think we could have exposed a
lot of corruption a lot of wrongdoing of
a lot of high-profile political people
because they had access to their servers
now just to kind of give you a sense of
how much more hacking and leaking we
have here's a list from 2010 to the
present and it's partial I could add
another dozen
examples um and before 2010 you've
really got four in the sort of
English-speaking world at least and only
two of them really kind of fit with my
definition so as I mentioned it was not
obvious um 2009 is really the first
instance where you have this tactic
fully formed but what's interesting
about the two which I'll get to later
was that people didn't copycat them and
it wasn't until Anonymous the hactivist
actually independently and accidentally
stumbled upon this tactic that then it
really started to cement into a template
for emulation so here's a very truncated
genealogy so even though I sort of
identified 2009 as the kind of time
where this came into being I often like
to give analog examples and there is a
really amazing example of a group of um
activists the citizens commission to
expose the FBI who has heard of them so
a few they actually broke into an FBI
field office in Media Pennsylvania took
like three four suitcases of
files photocopied the documents sent
them to journalists and eventually Co
until Pro one of the most horrific sort
of programs against um activists was
exposed and this is a kind of hack and
leak obviously it's very hard to break
into a building and take documents so
that wasn't really replicated very often
now it wasn't until 2003 where you have
something similar where you have some
big email dumps that were not from hacks
and one has to do with a Debold voting
machine um someone found documents and
source code and email on unencrypted FTP
server took them and then some obscure
government official kind kind of dumped
the Enron emails they were in involved
in fraud and these were super
interesting because basically
journalists could not be bothered to
mine them right and it took amazing
amount of effort to even sort of cover
the documents that were found um in the
case of Debold for example there were
some stories about the vulnerabilities
but in this piece actually Paul Krugman
is reflecting why the [ __ ] didn't anyone
go into the documents and emails and
report on them now going through email
is a [ __ ] no one likes to do it it's
difficult you didn't really have
Boutique Tech reporting as much as you
to do did today so there's reasons for
that but I think it also shows that it
really wasn't on people's mental map so
in 2009 you have two bonafed hacks and
leaks you have one against a university
in England and it was climate Gates and
we don't know who took those emails um
they dumped them to kind of see Miss
distrust around climate science and this
got a lot of news it was all over the
news I'm not going to talk about it um
it didn't seem to inspire copycats the
second one was given to WikiLeaks and it
was signed anti-fascist hackers and it
was against Holocaust denier David
Irving and it did make a little bit of
the press and eventually we learned that
it was Jeremy Hammond who did it and
this is again one of the first Bona feed
hacks and leaks [ __ ] Nazi heck Nazi
website
now what's so interesting is that you
know eventually I could sort of
interview him about this stuff and I
sort of asked about like kind of where
did you get this idea what was your sort
of inspiration right it wasn't that one
day he's like here's the peanut butter
here's the chocolate I'll put it
together he was part of the hacker
underground and there was a cultural
movement called anti-c who here heard of
anti SEC not the recent one but the one
from early
2000s yeah anti one very few people so
in the early 2000s a bunch of hackers
who were part of the underground were
professionalizing they were getting jobs
and there was a small crew of people who
were like screw that we want to preserve
our cultural Kingdom we want our
exploits and vulnerabilities so they
went on a rampage against white hat
hackers and what they did was they
hacked them took their emails dumped
them but not for whistleblowing it was
just for shaming them right and Jeremy
was like that's badass but maybe we can
reformulate that and reformat that for
political purposes and initially he
would take emails and then share them
with a small network of people not
publicly and it wasn't until the
Wikileaks era where again the chocolate
and peanut butter came together so he
did this in 2009 he's on probation very
independently Anonymous comes into being
and very accidentally I don't have the
time to go into the details they start
to stumble on emails into
emails sometimes not through hacks
sometimes through hacks and it's all
over the news Jeremy's on the sidelines
he's super excited at a certain point
he's like I can't help myself I'm going
to kind of join and he does when LC is
disbanding and very
deliberately creates anti-c a kind of
new version where you're really
deliberately hacking and leaking and
some side sabotage as well doing things
like [ __ ] FBI Fridays where you try to
time a hack and leak every Friday so
that's a very brief genealogy there's
lots of interesting things else to say
but in 2012 a lot of people get arrested
and it's not really clear whether this
would continue right it's all over the
news but are people going to basically
copycat it right and I wasn't sure
myself I myself at this point also
thought this tactic is existed since the
1980s I took it for granted in 2014 the
answer came with LC Peru with Phineas
Fischer then you also have Guardians Of
Peace which is a nation state group
right so the tactic begins to morph but
it really starts to grow some serious
Roots into the ground and um what is
also interesting and I'm wrapping up so
that we could turn over to Jeremy is
that you have um groups like Phineas
fiser who are not quite as visible
they're not there doing 50 days of
hacking in a row they're striking maybe
one year a few times then in 2016 for a
few more times but they're writing
manifestos with extremely detailed
instructions for how not to get caught
right and indeed whether it's Phineas
Fischer or guacamaya now we have this
tactic where these groups individuals
who knows who are doing this but evading
capture so that's all I'm going to say
if you're interested in the 40 page
version um feel free to email me but
otherwise I'm now going to turn it over
to Jeremy for his bit thank
you okay full
screen B you're the best heck this side
was a long time ago I was just learning
it myself learning it by doing basically
um yeah I'm I'm I'm a backend coder and
and I'm I'm pretty skilled at remote
intrusion but uh I'm not actually
particularly like the best right and
none of us are but it's just you know
what I found is that how many like 15
million security contractors are there
that that could be a potential Snowden
but ain't because I don't know in the
United States a lot of tech workers and
developers are basically complicit with
the um the system how do I full screen
this
[ __ ] this is very
embarrassing I didn't use PowerPoint
right oh my God command
F so anyways white hats
oh my
God
Thunder all right what to do this is
also single slides but I could just do
it in
mine sorry about
this
there we go all right let's burn some
[ __ ] so it's time to draw a line of the
sand and time for hackers to develop
some class Consciousness you know Occupy
Wall Street where the 99% but you know
there's obviously intersectionalities
and so forth and I think honestly we've
been a little bit too patient with those
who are complicit with the corporate
security uh these professionals are
harmless now uh now granted I'm I am so
inspired by what y'all have built here
uh I wish we could do the same thing in
the United States where it's desperately
needed um but uh what we have right now
uh how things have changed you know I
just got a smartphone like two years for
the first time when I got out of prison
I was on all these ridiculous monitoring
shits um and I was just coming to terms
with the rise of big Tech and what Cory
Dr calls in [ __ ] ification and all these
new complex ideologies that uh Tess CR
is U like you know the musks and the
Peter theels uh and this crypto stuff uh
this futurism where those are left
behind and and all this ion surveillance
stuff would only be made possible by
those developers who had chose the
paycheck over principle and so and you
know hackers you know the vision of uh
if information was just free we'd all
you know we'd all just result in this
utopium but unfortunately was not able
to contend with the forces of uh
neoliberal capitalism which is a
masterful recuperation of hackers that's
why you see hack Labs turn to hacker
spaces and now maker spaces and stuff
like that and uh and Defcon and so forth
right so it's time to make hacking a
threat
again
I love those little fishes man um but
hey uh so these are some uh tips and
stuff like that that I thought what were
our strengths that made work uh
anonymity encryption Ops that
compartmentalization need to know I will
say that the reasons why I have been
busted any of these times is not because
of any of the failures of uh the
technology itself first off shout out to
the tour project that that [ __ ] uh I
relied on that [ __ ] for 9 months and
that's not how they caught me you know
what I mean I made my own mistakes by
running my mouth mostly and trusting
people and so forth but uh encryption
Works El sowden said it himself but uh
if you just need to be precise though of
course right uh what also works is uh
mematic action uh replicable replicable
action creating openings be like water
like they said in Hong Kong I believe uh
basically like I've worked in a lot of
protests and and organizations and so
forth right and I am I'm an anarchist
but so we have a CR a criticism of uh
centralized and um hierarchical
organizational structures and I think
the future is more mematic action I
think that's one of anonymous strengths
is to learn how to the verality and also
because uh you don't have to wait to do
it yourself you know you could just be
inspired if you see something it
recognizes it like I have some examples
down here uh stuff like graffiti Raves
flash mobs uh hopping and Turn Style
teen takeovers and so forth um or like
in in Chicago we have like these teen
takers these slides where people just
have these spontaneous public Gatherings
and so forth that just it's gorilla
stuff hit and run uh diversity of
tactics uh you know there's no one way
to do it there's many ways there's many
worlds you know sometimes you have to
know what card to play at the right
moment sometimes it's just got to boil
over though and you got to take action
but this you know I I came up you know
handing flyers and going to anti-war
protests and stuff like that and uh
thinking possibly naively that you could
change things by that the people in
power will be willing to listen to you
or they'll be able to you could achieve
reforms through this system it took my
head being whooped by batons it took a
lot of time in jail and and a lot of
bogus charges in jail sometimes it is
sometimes it didn't do it though and and
I had to learn that the whole thing just
has to go completely right and so direct
action hey it gets the goods baby
there's a lot St to activism though you
know you don't all have to we don't all
got to be the hero to break stuff you
know we choose our own level of
involvement we're all not uniquely
positioned in our lives uh again there's
all forms of defensive activism these
hacker spaces uh creating these
incubations and developing software and
audits are all part of part of this
diversity of pro uh diversity of tactics
um decentralized deterrence uh
discourage recruitment of cops law
enforcement white hats if they thought
first off a cop shouldn't be able to get
a bar in any [ __ ] place you know
anywhere they shouldn't you know if if
if white hats like that too maybe uh
we'd have less white hats developing um
the hacking team spy [ __ ] the
surveillance all that uh so anti-c uh
big fan we uh chose targeting the white
hats as the weak link because also first
off their emails they got the
credentials they got the live
vulnerabilities they got they got the
keys to the kingdom so we're we're after
that [ __ ] get the mail get it
all all right mistakes were made but
they didn't stop us from learning our
lessons and moving on you know uh my
first time I act uh protest where is
like a right-wing uh counter counter
protest thing they were uh kind of like
doxing us and like ba had said uh a lot
of the work um I was doing was a lot of
anti-fascist work uh knowing and mapping
the rightwing networks um and uh again
like hacking that all of it has to be
spectacular Front Page News defacement
sometimes it's lie quietly and listen
right and and knowing where to
distribute that data to those that
matter you know we need to know who
these Nazis are in our neighborhoods we
need to know their connections whether
they are also police officers or work in
security themselves or uh generally and
and also it works you know what I mean
um so the David Irving one we I went
after that because he was on a speaking
tour and uh we did the secret location
and all this type of stuff and so we
were able to heck his emails get all the
meeting locations he had to cancel it
also the attendees those who attended
these neo-nazis and so forth so now we
uh we I chose to release it to WikiLeaks
because that was a stable platform that
was at the time that distributed no
questions asked right and so uh it's
like you know is one of the difficult
things for those who are breaking in
whether it's physically uh to like the
example you had mentioned or digitally
like but fortunately y'all [ __ ] the
greatest because y'all there's now many
distributed uh Distribution Systems D of
course right um anyways back to this
imprecise and unline Technical execution
like you got to be on point right um you
know it's like hacking and stuff is like
you grind it you they're doing it for
the paycheck 9 to5 but we're all night
online baby you know I mean we just need
to find that one mistake right but this
the reverse is true because you also
have to be 100% accurate 100% of the
time and you know you might get away
with it or so you thought but years
later man that log file or whatever the
[ __ ] they did they come get your ass so
just be precise um persistent identities
and Crossing streams Crossing streams
okay so I hacked this site I was you
know using Alias as typ to my name I was
young I didn't know what the hell I
doing but while at the same time also
breaking into [ __ ] and then people are
just obviously able to see two and two
together because I did not
compartmentalize my life and uh it was
very easy for them to get so you can't
really do above ground and underground
stuff at the same time I mean you can
but we all have a little bit multiple
personality stuff but persistent
identities during Anonymous I I tempted
to have multiple a dozen nicknames or
something like that change a different
time and place you know uh and uh you
know if you do a hacky it's not really a
good idea to use the same identity over
and over and over again because you keep
them guessing right it's best to keep
them guessing that they'll know
unfortunately I was talking to an
informant who knew all the nicknames
anyway so it didn't even really matter
uh in my case but uh that has to do with
more of a choice about whether I chose
to involve myself with a larger
phenomenon and get involved public we'll
talk more about the to crew or not to
crew later um leaders hierarchies and
pyramids right obvious you know we we
already know all that ambiguous politics
I I always say it's nice to know who
you're getting involved with and know
where you stand and let others know how
you would react to a situation
politically Occupy Wall Street was the
99% but then you'd also have like a lot
of right-wing tea parters and even folks
who believe that the cops are part of
the 99% to and stuff like that again
they had to wait until they got kicked
out of a dozen cities by force by the
police until they oh wait a minute
they're not on it right um no connection
to local struggles activist actions are
really you can't just like parachute in
and think that you know what a local
struggle or those who are being
oppressed by some type of Corporation
government we're just going to come in
and save the day you know I mean you
really do have to understand the context
and get involved to see what folks
actually want uh this the Synergy of
activism hacking is is at those little
uh intersections as vend diagrams is
when you really uh are effective though
um and it's there's in the United States
there's actually not that much overlap
between hacking and AC from my personal
perspective you know I've been to those
2600s and they they just ain't into it
they just stand into it you talk talk
about antifascism they' be like oh
that's scary it's extreme we don't have
nothing to do with that any other
problems exclusivity elitism not sharing
the knowledge and fun you know like like
I'm a blackhead I understand don't
publish exploit code don't keep it
private respected but also like we can't
keep this specialized and insular uh
direct action we need to show and so
like like be had said uh Phineas and the
Decepticons I believe not only did they
hack some [ __ ] leak some [ __ ] they've
also published DIY guides to showing
first off how easy it is uh and that you
could do it yourself that you don't need
to wait
uh working with in the system yeah know
we ain't doing all that U all right I
just do this and mistakes were made um I
didn't really intend to uh talk in
detail about how I was caught uh but I
just do these couple slides slides here
just talk uh the tour correlation attack
uh is with an informant um but we'll
talk about that later if you want to see
me on Saturday come we'll go all into
how opset could go horribly wrong um
here's some more fashion tips for the
brave just uh black so they reduce
identifying um this is more of a
physical thing but it also I thought it
might have some analog stuff too because
you know writing in these IRC chat rooms
and Publishing press releases I'm always
curious to see how these intelligence uh
agencies like use language analysis and
so forth to identify and tie together
stuff or if you're smashing a window
lately wear all black don't be wearing
these the same sneaks that You' be
wearing all all the time to catch your
ass and they do they do one mistake
that's it right because these
[ __ ] have mastered the counter
Insurgency they know how to manage
resistance uh and recuperate so and they
did so with Anonymous um and a lot of it
has to do with maybe a little bit of
weakness of the open nature of
decentralized communities right they
have just these chat rooms with
thousands of people you know who's in
there logging of course informs of
course uh entr tratment that we can talk
a little bit about that as well later uh
but they also try to discredit uh those
who are are uh working hard uh on on the
right [ __ ] they'll just throw [ __ ]
co-option they'll try to um I I have it
listed down here the Dutch and formula
the divide and conquer uh other side of
the coin are a few good papers that talk
about some of the different divide and
conquer strategies mostly between
isolating good and bad protesters
whatever the hell that means or or even
try to reduce it to a narrative of Law
and Order or criminality like oh we we
could have to be legal or we have to be
pacifist is the only way the one way or
like that and so one of the strategies
is they isolate the radicals they Calla
criminal they call us but listen what I
found is that I was handing out flyers
in new news get my head beaten they
still call me a terrorist I didn't even
do that terrorist [ __ ] till many years
later because hey they made me they made
me hey
um uh government corpor fascist coopting
the tactics and Aesthetics of hackers
and revolutionaries we're seeing this
with kinon like they're trying to say
there some Ty of lineage there's
obviously no lineage but they like the
uh the Aesthetics of rebellion and
resistance I always think it's hilarious
if everybody put rage against a machine
as example because all these like antix
or right Wingers and stuff might just
hear it for the first time because you
know they don't know what the hell to do
and they think that it's then they wait
these are commies these are [ __ ]
lefties [ __ ] he like uh what the [ __ ]
marger Taylor green sell and defund the
FBI shirts right but there or rightwing
thinking that like they're now trying to
claim the mantle of fre p and stuff like
that because they got [ __ ] kicked off
at Twitter man how about you [ __ ] try
a month in the Box because you posted
some [ __ ] on Twitter or how about you
write a letter to your [ __ ] uh judges
sentencing and stuff like that they take
your email privileges away for [ __ ]
months right you know try try just doing
handing leaflets and get your ass
whooped and now these [ __ ]
complain about Twitter and stuff uh and
then of course like Bel had mentioned
the Hacked State and governments also
are now adopting the hacking leaks
themselves right um full circle I
suppose uh you know there's uh the Vault
7 Revelation showed how also uh the US
CIA specifically has tools that could uh
Mis attribute a hack and make it appear
like it comes from somewhere else um and
then they try to muddy the waters too
also with this Hunter B laptop and the
DNC and stuff like that so they're
they're they're learning that some
things are effective and in a way that
it's a little bit more honest in a sense
that they're not even they're droing the
pretense of Law and Order CU it
democracies is a sham in the first place
and now they're doing the same [ __ ] we
are like at least in the United States
they're just it's it's best past the
breaking point all right just some
critiques of leaking is not enough like
be said a lot of the work is honestly
the journalism digging through the
databases you know I mean like okay you
could hack some [ __ ] and get like 80
gigs of emails and SQL and stuff like
that like you know do we who who has
time you know when when I was at my
height I had like hundreds and hundreds
of targets man it's one of the reasons
why I chose to go with Wikileaks uh to
release the stra for emails because they
had teams of professionals journalists
to be able to go through and look and
find the stories to find the scandals uh
because destroying is great man believe
it and and I'll talk a little bit more
about that later but leaking is kind of
has the long-term scandals that could
make or break a presidency or or
aspiring right-wing politicians career
so deaning the Empire can I give one
example yes
in LC Peru hacked um the government and
they released emails that showed massive
corruption and then they were voting to
disintegrate the government and they
didn't but they needed one more vote to
do so so making a difference you you you
could shape public perception and
consciousness of the problem by exposing
it um and as Outsiders we're a little
bit different from uh whistleblowers you
know I mean we're not military we're not
law enforcement you know I mean we're
they're holding all the keys like in
their little fortresses and stuff like
that but again if if a smart person
knows where to look to find the cracks
in the windows and the doors right um
and find that [ __ ] and release it
okay leaking is not enough uh lack of
stable distribution Platforms in the
early days but fortunately now I think a
little bit is is better now uh with
torren and uh you know a lot of the
technology y all have developed a
problem is oversaturation and
desensitization so like in the early
days like it was a revelation that you
know you have like a police chief email
sending racist stuff like that and you
could get far but now there's just
they're muddying the water buts by
dumping so much fake news and disinfo
that is hard to distinguish reality and
so now it's just a everyone's perception
is you know we all know that um
diffusion by dis info uh limits of
whistleblower so yeah a lot of
whistleblowers you know who work within
like these governments and stuff like
that uh first off we do need to create
incentives because we do want to welcome
those a lot of them do have like these
once they see the dirt maybe the a few
of them do join these things with the
good intentions maybe not police the
bullies and so forth but uh nevertheless
maybe they have a crisis of conscious
and we need to create welcoming
environments to where they could we
could embrace them but nevertheless
often times I found that they have
lingering allegiances and belief that
you could still appeal to the
authorities by you know there like
whistleblower programs with the
government like Oh They'll uh protect
you but you know what you know look what
they did to the ones who tried you know
they prosecute and threaten and
discredit and all the rest um and so I
found that that resulted in a lot of
half measures um and also uh I don't
care remember if I talk okay I'll talk
about later and then liberal media is
complicit as well because either they're
not going to be covering it uh unless
they have to like for example the
Pentagon papers you know the or even
Chelsea Manning went to several uh
reporting agencies and tried to release
them but they weren't trying to hear
none of that right um so they're kind of
part of the problems that's why we need
like independent DIY journalism and
stuff like that this where y'all come in
uh unfortunately leaking I would say has
not stopped the death march because now
that we are aware of it we all know
government is spying on us they're going
to war and stuff like that so just the
knowledge of this fact we've all known
that right so we need to make hacking a
threat again t a more effective activism
right so you know again like we can't
all be the warrior it's I would say that
is extremely important that you know
exactly what you're looking at before
you even get involved in it uh and also
let those who around you know what your
limitations are uh before you get
involved um and then also it's super
important to uh practice prisoner
solidarity for those comrades got locked
up in the line of duty um and now first
I want to shout out chaos Camp because I
got a lot of postcards from this Camp
years ago and it meant everything to me
it meant everything to me I I I'm so I
can't tell you I happy a to be here with
[Applause]
y'all
I think they are still also doing a jail
to the mail thing MF was talking about
so there's there's still lots of folks
locked up behind bars um and I will say
enacting prisoner solidarity is not is
is important also because it emboldens
the next line of those who were willing
to thinking about whether they take the
adventure because you are not alone you
will have a movement that got your back
and we'll see you through we'll see you
through the other end
right um so study court documents you
know the discovery the indictments read
that [ __ ] to study the fores repor
advisor to see how they caught um I
threw in here reject Law and Order the
framing of ethical hacking yeah we all
know this [ __ ] right um this is the big
one though no if and when to pull the
trigger like I alluded to it earlier but
you know not always it's a good idea to
release immediately or attack
immediately for one I would say this is
one of the when I first started getting
Anonymous and started looking at them it
was so amazing inspiring because they're
getting some big targets off the r but
there's an RC oh sh got SQL in state go
what when to face when to face was like
now you got to go through the emails you
got to test all those hashes you know
you got to probe and get all all the
Mals at least if you Ain get the mails
you know before you pull the trigger um
and but then again you can't wait too
long either because of course the window
might close um less spectacle and more
damage all right now smash smashing a
window it it shatters the myth of Law
and Order and creates openings in which
another world is possible um but spec
spectacle is great defacements are great
um but man why don't you just rmrf that
[ __ ] you know what I mean destroy that
[ __ ] straford it took them like six
weeks because I deleted like four
servers completely DD and [ __ ] like so
uh a defacement they might take down but
damage is forever
[Applause]
baby less redactions and more ing um so
I I I put this in because I was kind of
a little bit uh frustrated that for
example the Snowden doc that released
all these slides of like the NSA slides
and all all the prisms and all that
stuff right but they didn't even release
the names of the NSA agents or whoever
[ __ ] wrote them why the hell not why
the hell not release that [ __ ] man like
first off in a lot of places around the
world police officers and stuff you
should be known and we shouldn't have
police in the first place all cops are
bastards but it would be a thing to know
who they are so so but uh never mind uh
docs their their addresses and all that
[ __ ] I will will say though that you do
have to go of the data because it's a
lot of responsibility to be sitting on I
was hacking a lot of police stuff like
that and I'd have emails and stuff like
that and for example they would have um
jail rosters of people who are
incarcerated in these jails uh and
people who are not even convicted of a
crime for example or also possibly
victim witness statements and uh so
forth of domestic violence that we don't
necessarily want to obviously we don't
want to expose that stuff because uh so
you you do have a a tremendous
responsibility to parse through that
data which is again a lot of the work
when you hack some 80 gigs of emails and
[ __ ] oh man I need I need team for this
but uh but there's no crew only you
don't wait either but uh that's why
there's like these uh networks we have
these journalism networks in Wikileaks
and alternatives to WikiLeaks how D do
um and don't be afraid to be the first
don't be afraid to go all the way I will
say this when I start getting arrested
and stuff it's like U my first time um I
had 5,000 credit cards didn't use a
single one right I talked about using a
little oh we're going to donate to all
these causes that they hate it would be
great to charties and and Ki groups and
stuff like that right but I didn't use
them but they still charge me as if I
did it anyways right and they gave me
the the sentencing gu five $5,000 credit
cards $500 $25 million of Damages six
years over the statutory maximum anyways
like d come on man like they're going to
sentence you as if you did it anyway so
you may as well go all the way hell half
the time I've been arrested time yeah
you already know man and that's really
all I have to say to be honest that's it
we're down for questions please hit I'm
an open book I'm here all week
[Applause]
soey
so there's there's plenty of time for
questions um I will help moderate them
Jeremy is there a
microphone
yeah stand over here cuz we need to not
in the in the camera shop
than oh hi I I will never thank you
enough for all you've done in your
entire life I love you so much both of
you same I
have I have a short comment I'll make it
short and I have a question for you uh
we heard 2009 we heard we heard
Wikileaks named three times we heard Vol
7 but you mentioned you know Wikileaks
as a platform um a bunch of journalists
my comment is that to me Wikileaks also
um taught the world how to do journalism
and data journalism taught the world how
to do anti-censorship publishing and not
just a PL platform uh also Wikileaks
told us about Source protection now I
haven't heard the the name of Assange in
your talk and when the camp uh ended
four years ago he was mentioned because
four years ago he was [ __ ] arrested
and he's still in the worst prison in
the
UK for nothing today so I wanted to ask
you does this case of this violent
character assassination campaign um with
this fake doctored uh accusations the
nil meler the the UN reporter on um you
know demonstrated that the Swedish R
rape case was fabricated this and the
rest is that the same tactics for to
discredit to divide and the such that
you mentioned uh earlier and is there a
US bias in the perception of the
character of Assange that prevents uh
the unified and Justified campaign of
support that he he and Wikileaks and
everybody else in Wikileaks
deserves okay I I
could talk about the
liberal uh well for one free Julian
Sange and all political prisoners all
prisoners just saying um thanks for the
question is a very uh heavy one right um
I will say this uh it's true like we
mentioned earlier that the United States
especially uh us the campaigns to
discredit those who stand up the nail
stands who gets hammered down um but it
is also true that there is uh you know a
history of patriarchy and sexual abuse
that uh you know anyone is uh capable of
doing it and it is a disappointing and
it is it needs to people need to be held
accountable for their
um I can't comment on the specifics of
the Assange um but I will say also that
uh one thing I like about the new
generation of uh whistleblowing
platforms is that it is not necessarily
uh centered around uh personalities or
individuals which uh that's why I
mentioned earlier the martyrdom thing um
is that uh because it's a failure we all
fail right um and we can list a lot of
examples I'm not even really
specifically referring to ass here um so
I'm just saying that has a way of uh
lessening the problem of these uh you
know abusers in our organizations if
that we don't centralize power in that
way
and I could speak to the kind of bias
against Assange in his case in the
United States and the liberal media I
think you're absolutely right and I
think it runs enormously deep for a
couple of reasons I mean one of which is
absolutely you're right that you know
the American Media um and different
moments of its history has been
extremely spineless completely spineless
and in fact the citizens commission to
expose the FBI The Washington Post
published the story but they did not
want want to they did not want to the
New York Times didn't want to a bunch of
editors kind of um convinced kathern
Graham to release the information at the
time that Wikileaks you know came into
being you had Chelsea Manning who wanted
to kind of show collateral murder
Reuters knew about that [ __ ] video
they had seen it and they would not
publish right and it was so important to
have that platform and I think because
in some ways like if I was some Freudian
lcan psychoanalyst which I'm not I think
there's something really interesting
about how Assange basically showed how
spineless the American Media was then
things went sour you know and then it's
insane to me because I've definitely
have done events around his son and you
know there have been a lot of people
who've come out and supported it but
it's not receiving the attention it
needs because that is a threat to
journalism he does not deserve that um
so I really appre appreciate your
question and Wikileaks is a key part of
the story that we're telling um but yeah
absolutely in many deep
ways I will say also that they uh tried
to you know when they held me in
contempt and wanted me to testify seeing
ass sign was like he as you he was pay
whatever was like dude just because I
don't necessarily agree with some of the
Trump stuff earlier that I didn't agree
but it doesn't mean I still said [ __ ]
you I ain't saying [ __ ] [ __ ]
free free the man free the
man
[Applause]
we have five minutes so questions
comments um we have a crisis of
Journalism that is we're almost past
facts so nobody believes in anything
anymore so how can journalism still
expose stuff if No One Believes anything
anyway I think there is an objective
truth you know I mean uh despite their
attempts to muddy the water um with with
disin phone this post Society you're
right you're right that's why I said
leaking may not be enough um that's why
you know if you get the docks post it
yes and maybe maybe we can and we should
push hard to hold these people
accountable once we find their
information right but you're right
because then they could also create a
counternarrative just make [ __ ] up so
that's why I'm saying just delete their
[ __ ] or just stalk them outside of the
house or do what do what you need to do
but they they should not be around
working military no more if you know
what you know about
them I also um I'm an anthropologist and
we sort of um are bread and Butter's
conspiracy at some level uh and it's
interesting cuz you know historically we
tended to be like oh look at the chupaca
which is this like goat sucking alien in
in Puerto Rico which is where I'm from
and I'm like I love the chupaca and it's
really about colonialism and
postcolonialism and extraction and I I
will say that as much as I hate the far
right and the right I do actually think
that part of the problem again I go back
to like the liberal media and and these
sorts of things is that um you know they
haven't been historically aggressive
enough going after the powerful right
and so sometimes you get these
conspiracy theories that kind of have
like a kernel of truth right and so as
you sort of rebuild um journalism you
also have to like you know I got my
vaccines and fizer you know helped
create it but fizer has done a lot of
really [ __ ] up things as well right
and so we have to hold these
corporations really accountable because
I I think that helps um breed conspiracy
as well and as kind of Jeremy said like
if you're not doing that then that
creates the conditions but it's going to
be a long time historically these have
come in waves before so I hope that um
we overcome the wave before we destroy
the planet with climate change that's my
big worry
now okay we have two more minutes we
have one more question and we need to
fix uh get that in this two minutes
can we take the two questions side by
side and I'll just let okay um yeah so
I'll be quick um first of all like
everybody thanks to both of you for all
the great work you've done uh thanks for
coming and talking to us you said that
the Postcards From Here helped you while
you were in prison and I was wondering
like because it was a long time right
and uh what what helped you carry
through that's what I like what what
else is helpful to do and the second
half of the question now that you're out
are you completely free or are you still
under some conditions and what is your
life like like not what is your life
like but like what's your situation
thanks um you're right so prison and
jail is is an extremely dehumanizing and
isolating place they're trying to break
you they're trying to break your spirits
but one thing I've learned is that they
can take your body but they can't take
your mind it's that last inch you're
free um and so being an isolating place
you know it's a whole world of fences
and walls trying to separate is a whole
micronation where the basically second
classes and stuff but uh so I do a lot
of political prisoner work and books to
prisoners and and support now is is one
of my main things and um what we're
trying to do is we're trying to pierce
that wall we're trying to climb that
wall and and reach out and make
connections with folks to let them know
that they're not alone it's a very
despar despairing place um and so uh
just knowing that you're heard for one
um and just knowing that uh you got
people out there that got your back
means everything um and so what I do
like you said uh what conditions and
stuff that yeah when I got out um I had
three years paper and uh yeah I was on
this internet monitoring program where
it's like a private company that had to
actually pay for it of all my devices
that monitored my messages and and stuff
like that and uh actually to upload my
messages every day and then my PO would
be like who is this you're talking it
was it was terrible so that's why it's
I've been out two years though and
fortunately I had some lawyers who all
the way supported me uh shout out to
Legal a shout out to National lawyers
Guild by the way and I'm sure you all
have the equivalence because they've
always had my back and often for free so
uh they uh in my case they actually
fought the conditions on free speech and
Associate they said I couldn't even
associate with hackers couldn't even
associate with civil disab whatever the
hell that means right I and it was like
that the first time too as a matter of
fact but I still did what I did though
you know what I mean um but fortunately
my lawyers did beat that with motions
after we got the judges transferred over
to Chicago and stuff like that one thing
I'll say though is that you know I did
two Federal sentences for hacking and it
got arrested a dozens of times I don't
regret any of it my only regret is that
I was not um didn't give a chance to
finish any of the targets I was working
on you know
like
so can you do it really quick because
then I would take this as the last Quick
answer quick question so if we're
talking about hacking and leaking now
I'm wondering what you guys obviously
not ideologically but what you think
about ransomware groups and if you think
that journalists or academics will touch
the data that ransomware groups are
leaking because they're pushing out
gigabytes and gigabytes of data from big
companies what what do you think about
that as a phenomenon um yeah it's
interesting because I feel like I you
know I haven't monitored them as closely
but they certainly have changed their
tactics where they're pulling back a
little bit against like hospitals and
then going against targets where they
might um hit a law firm that worked for
Trump um take the emails and then do do
Secrets uh host them and I I actually
really respect what dos Secrets is doing
which takes a kind of equal opportunity
hosting the stuff um they make some
stuff public some stuff they just give
to researchers because that stuff is
really really important and you know
there still isn't quite enough people
going through um this material
and I also do suspect that ransomware
groups are probably strategizing a
little bit in terms of choosing targets
that will help them monetarily but maybe
draw in a little bit of public sympathy
as well but there is material out there
right and um I think having the public
journalists others really go through
that stuff can yield some really really
important insights and that is something
that you know many of us are well
positioned to do today
I just want real quick I just want to
say that I don't think we should
necessarily knock uh criminal hacking or
hacking for survival Those Who as a
means must learn how to scam copy cards
or uh credit card fraud just because he
people going to do what they have to do
to survive and we you know I've been I
when I was in jail and stuff like that I
didn't think myself no better or no less
than anybody else that was in there you
know what I mean and frankly I I would
the second time when I got out I I made
a decision to go hard as possibly I
could and go after govern all this stuff
is like all gas right but I still got 10
in the United States that's actually uh
relatively medium to low so there with
tens and 20s and 30s and life for people
just wrong place wrong time doing they
have to survive and stuff like that so
I'm a little bit humbled and not so like
judgment about criminal hacking which I
think is still within our rubric so do
what you got to
[Applause]
do okay then uh thank the two of you for
coming over here and actually giving the
talk um and yeah ladies and gentlemen
it's jerem and baella Coleman
[Music]
[Applause]
[Music]
oh