Herald (De): Herzlich willkommen im Hacker Morgengrauen im Stream der c-base der
Raumstation unter Berlin Mitte. Das ist schon der zweite Talk heute. Wir begrüßen
diesmal Alex. Hallo, Alex. Alexander: Hallo. Guten Morgen.
Herald: Alexander Sander zum Thema Public Code in der Pandemie. Public Money, Public
Code. Genauer gesagt. Also wir möchten doch gerne für das sauer abgesparte
Steuergeld auch Dinge zurückbekommen und nicht Dinge, wo wir hinterher nicht ran
dürfen und nicht reingucken dürfen und nichts mit machen dürfen. Und welche
Bedeutung das hat. Und warum das langfristig noch wichtiger wird. Das wird
Alex uns gleich lang und breit erklären. So lang und so breit wie nötig. Bis
ungefähr 1 Uhr. Und wenn ihr Fragen habt, dann benutzt den Hashtag rc3 und dann
werden wir versuchen das in dem Pad zu materialisieren und noch kurz drüber zu
sprechen um 1. Gut. Alex, dann halbe Stunde für dich. Viel Spaß.
Alex (De): Ja, vielen Dank.
Alex (En): Good morning, everyone. 12:30 * laughs* hacker morning. That's that's
lovely. Yeah. So in the next 30 minutes, I will talk about the public money, public
code and what role free software played during the crisis and is still playing.
And so my name is Alexander Sander. I'm policy consultant of the Free Software
Foundation Europe, and we are a charity that empowers users to control technology.
And yeah, we do believe that free software plays a crucial role here. So to get us in
the mood, I think you all remember it was around March last year when the borders
have been closed because of the crisis. So we wanted to avoid contacts. And yeah, one
solution back in the days was to close borders. And as you know, free movement is
a fundamental right. And to fix this issue, software played important role and
contact tracing apps, for example, have been pushed on the market to fix this. And
I will talk about this a bit later. And also, we have seen us and many of us in
home office and again here. Software, was very important and as well free software
played an important role. And as said in the next minutes, I will tell you why and
free software is important and as and specifically what free software solutions
helped us to tackle the crisis. So everybody loves free software, especially,
I think, around c-base and the Congress free software is pretty well known.
However, let me introduce you quickly the concept of free software. So it's also
sometimes called libre software, open source software. But free software always
comes with 4 freedoms, and it's the freedom to use, study, share and improve.
This means free software gives you the freedom to use the software for any
purpose you want. Without any restrictions, you are free to study the
code so it can be analyzed by anyone so you can see the code. You can see what the
software is going to do, what it does. You also free to share the software without
any limitations. So there are no like license costs or something like this, so
you can install it on as many workstations as you want and so on. But here, please
keep in mind the price doesn't matter. So free is not coming with the price in
general. So you can also sell free software and this is also done, but you
are free to share it afterwards. And also, you are free to improve the software. You
can modify it. And by this you can give back to the community. And whenever we
have these 4 freedoms to use, study, share and improve, then it is free software or s
said there are many names like open source, libre software and so on. And
these 4 freedoms helped us during the crisis a lot when it came to software
solutions to give you a better understanding of the 4 freedoms I just
named. In practical terms, I have this slide here for you where I will first show
you the problems of proprietary software. So software, which is not coming with this
4 freedoms and on the other hand, on a practical way, the 4 freedoms as a
solution for free software. So first, they are. The major problem was proprietary
software is that there is no interoperability at all. You might have
*laughing* this problem as well a lot. So it's the thing that you are stuck in an ecosystem.
And if you buy a piece of software from one vendor, you always have to go back to
this one vendor. To like broaden your system, so programs are not working
together, so there is no connection and but as we call it interoperability, this
is something we don't see at proprietary software. But as you are coming into this
vendor lock in, as said. If you buy one piece of software, let's say office
solution, then you need to buy a mail program, or presentation thingy or
something like this from the same vendor. Because as you want, have want to have
interoperability, these proprietary vendors only give you interoperability in
their own system. But if you want to go out of the system, then you run into
struggles, and there's no interoperability at all. So this is a problem with data
sharing with others, but also like collaborative working and so on. And this
also means that these pieces of software came with unpredictable costs. So first of
all, you have to buy a piece of software. Then you do not know how much you have to
pay for the other pieces you might need in the future. But also, you don't know at
one point you have to pay for upgrades for updates and so on. And so it's really hard
to estimate the costs for the software in the future. And this is also a huge
problem which is coming with proprietary software. And also as you have to pay for
the license first, and many also like for a license for every workstation and so on.
Your investments are lost so you can't invest the money into the coding, but you
just pay for licensing. And so that's why your investments are also just lost in the
very beginning. And we have seen during the crisis I will show you some examples
that's later that there's also a very low acceptance by citizens if they have to, or
if they are forced to use proprietary software. And in the end, there are also
security issues. As you can't look into the code, you might don't find backdoors,
for example, or you can't see if the software is really is going to do what
it's supposed to do. And so therefore proprietary software also comes with
security issues. And so on the other hand, we have the solution. It's risk free
software because we have there, we have these open standards. This is coming from
the 4 freedoms as you are free, for example, to look in the code as you can
modify it and so on, and as it based on open standard we have this
interoperability by default. And so we can, like work together across borders,
and it's very easy to collaborate if you are using free software because you have
these interoperability by default. Also you are highly independent through the
free licenses. So the 4 freedoms are always guaranteed when it is free
software, so you are free to modify and adapt it to your needs. You are free to
share it, to use it in as many workstations as you want and so on, as
just said. So you are highly independent, by this you can also collaborate, and this
is also something we have seen heavily during the crisis. That collaboration is
key, especially when it comes to global crisis. We need to work across borders. We
need to collaborate across borders. And so this this collaboration, we can share
risks, but also costs. So this is a big advantage of free software and also you
can involve local partners. So this is especially something we see when it comes
to the use of free software within administrations, public bodies. So
whenever governments are using free software, then there's a huge involvement
of local partners, which is also like a strengthening not only the software
project but also the region and so on. And it is transparent by default, as you can
see the code. This is very important. It's also one of the freedoms. And because of
this transparency, you can see the code. And by this, you can, for example,
identify bugs. You can fix bugs quickly. And so free software gives you the
advantage to make your software even more secure. And so free software isn't secure
by default, but you have the chance to quickly find security issues, but also
other issues and fix them immediately. So and this is also a big advantage, so you
don't have to go back to a vendor and ask him if he can fix something. You can
simply do it by your own or the community can thus. So with all of this, you can
also already see why it is a very good idea to use free software in general, but
also in particular during a crisis, which is. What we have seen, especially during
the corona crisis. So we need to work together because global problems need
global solutions, so as already said during the corona crisis, we have seen a
lot that there was free software around and that that was very good, that we used
free software and not proprietary software. And that especially in the
beginning, there were very interesting debates around it. I think you might
remember the tracing apps and so on, but we have seen that here in global crisis
the demands are very similar. So for example, when it comes to contact tracing
or something like this, we have seen that specific software and specific hardware is
and was needed. And for Home Office, for example, or for remote working, we have
seen this and especially with the tracing and now we see certificate apps, we see
that they are more or less the same demands around the world. And especially
if we look at Europe, they are more or less the same solutions as we want to.
Yeah, the European region without borders and so on. And here again, the solution is
that we need interoperability. So we need these open standards to be able to
collaborate, to work together and to also use the free licenses and to spread the
software as wide as possible. And also that we need to foster the innovation and
collaborate. So we have seen this a lot, that it was very important that it's not
only coders who work on a project and not only a nation or a specific region working
on a project, but that we have to involve many stakeholders from many countries
working on specific projects. And this is only possible with free software as we can
work and collaborate across borders. And we have also seen that the transparency of
free software gives us acceptance, and this is very important, especially if you
want to roll out software projects on a very large level. You need acceptance,
especially by citizens that they use the systems, and therefore transparency is and
also was key. And yeah, as said as you can involve all stakeholders, this is also a
big advantage. And I want to give you a concrete example now, with the apps. I
think most of you are using at least 1 or 2 of these *laughing* free software apps, which
are around at the moment. And when the debate started, it was also like one and a half
years ago we were discussing these contact tracing apps, and it was a discussion if
it should be centralized, decentralized, if it should be free software or
proprietary software and so on. And we very quickly jumped in with a press
release and advocated around governments with 3 demands, and they are still valid
today. And the 1st demand is that no matter what it is, these apps need to be
used voluntarily. So this is not that much on free software, but it's also a key that
it's a voluntary. But then it also must respect fundamental rights. So whenever
these apps are introduced and when they are health data, for example, in these
apps are, then we must respect fundamental rights, for example, the right to privacy
and so on. And we can only see if fundamental rights are protected, if the
code is transparent and if you can prove that the software is really going to do
what it's supposed to do. And in the end, so we set all of these apps and solutions
need to be free software, and we have been very successful with this demand and there
was a very huge debate. And what makes us very happy was that there was not only a
debate and not only the apps have been released as free software, but there were
some fundamental statements during the time, for example, from the World Health
Organization. And they said they need to be full, there need to be full
transparency and these apps need to be open sourced and also the European eHealth
network. So this is the European Commission and the member states of the
European Union released the toolbox for the member states, where they said already
defined how these mobile applications need to be designed in the European Union. And
here they said also that it need to be open sourced and. What makes us very happy
that they're not just said it need to be open source, but they also said it's good
for reuse, it's good for interoperability, it's good for the security and the
transparency. And so they followed our arguments fully, and this is very
important that the European Union, but also the World Health Organization,
quickly understood that it's only free software that can help us during this time
and the crisis. And we have quickly seen that there is this community engagement
and that it's not just about hackers and coders who improve apps, but it's also
about translations, for example. So we need people with language skills, but also
especially when it comes to the tracing apps. We also need, like scientists from
all areas who can tell us how such a virus spread and so on, and how we can trace it.
So here we have seen how global cooperation can work and can lead to a
situation that we have a very good app in the end, which helps us in this case for
contact tracing in the very beginning. And here you can see what happened on git, but
also with the CovPass app. We have seen that it's now available on F-droid.
Unfortunately, in Germany the CovPass app, so this is the app which gives you your
COVID certificate that your vaccinated, for example. And so in Germany, this app
was free software, but it was not released on F-droid and F-droid is a free software
app store. So the yeah, the better app store compared to Play Store, because in
F-droid, you can only find free software. But what happened is that the community
again stepped in, so volunteers helped us to make it possible that this app is now
also available on F-droid and ?. Yeah, it's also possible to use it on more
devices than before, and it's also free to use without any Google services, which is
also very important when it comes to privacy and so on. So here we have seen
that with the use of free software, we can make this app available to everyone and we
can ensure that fundamental rights are respected and that everything is based on
free software and that you, for example, don't need Google services to use these
apps. But on the other hand, what happened later? So after the good news, yeah, as
said there are also always bad news. In October last year, the European Commission
released a Open-Source strategy, so just a year later, after they said when it comes
to the CovPass apps and COVID apps, where they said it's important that they are
transparent because of security reasons, interoperability and so on, they gave
themselves a strategy. So the European Commission released an open source
strategy for themselves how they want to act and how they want to use free software
in the future. And unfortunately, there they watered down a lot. So it was not
like that, they said. So now we learned, and we want to have now everything on free
software because this is our learning from the crisis this is our learning from the
last decades. No. They said they want to release their solutions wherever it makes
sense to do so as open source. And they also want to be in the position to choose
non open technologies where there are good reasons to do so. So but at the same time,
they never, ever defined what are good reasons and where something makes sense.
So this is completely open. And so what is good, on the one hand, is that they have
something like open source strategy so that they are thinking about it, that they
are giving themselves the strategy. But at the same time, if they releasing this
paper, with so many loopholes we fear that there won't be a major change here. And I
think or we do believe that not only the crisis has shown us that free software is
the way to go, but also like the last decades and also before the crisis. We
have advocating a lot around this, and we have seen many administrations who have
very good experience with free software, not only when it comes to crisis but also
in general. Again, think about Home Office, think about video chats. What we
are do using here today, jitsi a free software tool, but also BigBlueButton, is
for example one so nobody has to be forced to use proprietary solutions like Zoom or
something like this. So they are very good free software tools on the market. And
there are good reasons to use them, especially when it comes to
administrations, because they are in contact with citizens with us. And I think
this is again a learning from the crisis. Transparency, for example, is key, but
also interoperability so that we are free to use whatever device we want, but are
still in the position to communicate with administrations. So and they also said
they want to set up a small, open source program office. There is no budget at all
for this. So what sounds very good from the very first page, so »think open«
that's the title of the strategy, turns out to be a paper full of loopholes, and
we are still in contact with the European Commission in order to learn what they are
doing. From what we have seen so far. It's not that much. They just released another
new paper. And um, but still, we don't see any budget. We don't see any people
working on this so that were specifically hired for this after the strategy was
introduced and so on. So, but yes. Stay tuned. Hopefully we can release some news
on this soonish on our website, but the commission is very, let's say, closed when
we ask about they think open strategy. Which is at the same time, very strange.
And so I said already before the crisis, not only us, but 100s of organizations and
also 10s of 1000s of individuals demanded that publicly financed software must be be
made publicly available under a free software license. And I think with a
crisis we have learned that it's now even more important than ever before to tell
administrations to convince administrations to use free software, and
it's not only about crisis, but it's also about digital sovereignty, for example. So
also for administrations, it's good to know what a software does if they use it.
So it's in the core of our state digital infrastructure and therefore the
administrations need to have the full control over the software they are using.
And this is also true for everybody else, like for us individuals, but also for
companies and civil society and so on. So it's in terms of digital sovereignty, a
very good idea to use free software. But it's also about our money. It's public
money, it's taxpayers money and public bodies are financed through taxes, and
that's why they have to make sure they spend their funds in the most efficient
way possible. And as I've shown to you, I think there's only 1 solution and this is
free software in the and. And to give you 1 number here and just imagine this money
would have been invested in free software in the last years. So the governments and
public bodies, public administrations are the largest purchasers of IT goods and
services, and they comprise up to 27% of the revenue of software firms. And so now
just think about if we would use these 27% and invest it in free software and think
about the solutions we would have had during the crisis already, for example, to
be able to have a secure workspace for Home Office and so on, but also to be
available to be in a digital administrations. And so I think this
number is very important and shows us that there are many investments lost because we
are or administrations are still buying proprietary software and didn't switch to
free software. So in the end, free software gives you the many advantages you
can as said involve local partners. So whenever administrations or public bodies
are procuring free software, we can see that it's also strengthening the local
economy so licensing fees are not going anymore to Ireland and the U.S., but it's
also highly efficient, so you don't have to reinvent the wheel again and again. So
administrations all over the world have pretty much more or less the same demands.
And so why do we have to reinvent the wheel again and again and buy one piece of
software again and again? And so there's absolutely no reason. And it would be way
more efficient to collaborate. And we can also see that when administrations are
doing this, it's happening. And also again, we have this digital sovereignty,
so you can have software which is tailored to your needs and you can modify it
whenever you want and adapt to your needs. And it's not just like a vendors business
model what you are following. And so therefore free software is a very good
idea. So if you are in line with our arguments and if you like our arguments,
you are still free to sign our campaign. So 3 years, 4 years ago now. We started
our comparing public money public code where we demand that whenever it's public
money, the code should be also public. And so we want legislation requiring that
publicly financed software developed for the public sector, need to be made
publicly available under a free software license. And we are seeing more and more
treaties and also, for example, in the coalition treaty in Germany, we have some
sentences on the use of free software. And so we see that there is some progress
here. But still, we only need not only we need to do more pressure here, we have to
fight for public money, public code still, and we see more and more commitments. But
at the same time, we need to also follow up with the implementation. As we have
seen, for example, with the European Commission, their open source strategy,
which is called think open but full of loopholes. Now it's important to see that
there is a good implementation because this is key. Papers are important. Sure,
this is a 1st step, but now we need to make sure that there's also a proper
implementation. And if you want to support us with our demand, you can also sign this
campaign. If you haven't done already or reach out to us, we have several
activities. We have an activity package telling you how you can contact your local
administration and convince them to use free software. Lots of our volunteers are
doing this, sometimes successfully. And so I think this is important that we continue
to talk about the advantages of free software and also use the example from the
crisis, I just have shown to you and continue our efforts to convince
administration to switch to free software. And with this, I want to end my talk and
would be up for questions if there are some in the pad, in the meantime.
Herald: Thank thank you very, very much. There's essentially 1 question popping up
on our pads here. And this is about this term of digital sovereignty and whether
digital sovereignty funded by national state actors would eventually mean that we
are sooner or later hacking for the national security agencies of our
countries. And what that would imply to for free software and the ethics of free
software. Alex: I mean, there was a bit of
background noise, so I'm not sure if I fully got it, but it's about if we would
like, if our community would like hack or fix governments software, if this is in
line with the ethical principles of free software, was this was, was this the
question or did I get it wrong? H: Yes. (not audible)
A: But I'll try to I try to address this, I think. Yeah. Governmental bodies are
using free software or should use free software as they are handling our data as
they are communicating with us. And for sure, also governmental bodies are using
software for surveillance, for example, for reasons we might personally don't
like. And this is very different. So and nobody should be forced to like invest the
time or resources to have governments to fix their software. And it's also again on
procurement so as said free software doesn't need to be priceless. So although
for us, it's important that if public bodies are using software, then whatever,
it is it should be free software and this gives us the chance to see code and, for
example, to discuss. And this also opens debates. If you want a solution which is
going to work like this, and this doesn't necessarily mean that we contribute to the
code, but we can also contribute to a software by discussing what it does. Is
this something we want to have for our society. Is this a software we really
need? And this is, I think, only possible if we have something like, for example, a
repository for governmental software which is used and then we can like check what
this is, what they are doing. And it doesn't mean that that you have to do it,
but you are free to do it. And I think this is important and this is also what we
have seen during the crisis. So there are some general or fundamental discussions
about the apps and about tracing and so on. But this is possible because it is
free software, and that doesn't mean that you have to contribute to the code or that
you have to use it. So as we said, it's important that it's that people can use it
voluntarily, but still you can contribute even if you just debate around it. So and
I think this is important and that is why we want free software. And I think in the
end, it's better to have a free software project where you can see what the
software does and that are a government tells you transparently what they are
going to do instead of doing it completely secretly.
H: Very well, so that demonstrates that we that we have maybe another problem or a
new problem, but a constructive one, something we can work on. And this whole
issue of digital sovereignty and national state actors must be discussed. As you
said, this was the main question from the pad. So thank you for the talk this
morning. A: Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, it
was fun. And yeah,enjoy the rest of the conference then.
H: Yes, I hope you do too. Thank you. A: Yeah. Thanks a lot. See you. Bye bye.
*Since. Everything is licensed under a CC BY 4.0. And it is all for the community,
to download for every bot.*
Subtitles created by c3subtitles.de in the year 2022. Join, and help us!